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The .NET API patent, mono, and GNOME

The .NET API patent, mono, and GNOME

Posted Jan 19, 2006 2:47 UTC (Thu) by smitty_one_each (subscriber, #28989)
Parent article: The .NET API patent, mono, and GNOME

>Clearly, it would be good to start writing core functionality in something nicer than C

Possibly a subjective assertion.


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The .NET API patent, mono, and GNOME

Posted Jan 19, 2006 4:39 UTC (Thu) by elanthis (guest, #6227) [Link]

Or possibly one born of years of experience writing apps in C and writing the equivalent apps in something else, and seeing how much more efficient writing in something other than C is. 10 lines of Python is so much nicer than 3000 lines of C, especially when they both do the same thing and have near identical runtime efficiency (as most of the work is done in library code, written in C).

The .NET API patent, mono, and GNOME

Posted Jan 19, 2006 10:50 UTC (Thu) by smitty_one_each (subscriber, #28989) [Link]

I love Python as well, but the words 'Clearly' and 'core' in the quotation motivated the remark.

The .NET API patent, mono, and GNOME

Posted Jan 19, 2006 23:01 UTC (Thu) by bk (guest, #25617) [Link]

'Near identical runtime efficiency' is true only in terms of absolute running time minus startup overhead. The 10 line Python program uses significantly more RAM (and has significant startup delay) compared to the 3000 line C program.

The .NET API patent, mono, and GNOME

Posted Jan 26, 2006 17:57 UTC (Thu) by arcticwolf (guest, #8341) [Link]

10 lines of Python is so much nicer than 3000 lines of C, especially when they both do the same thing and have near identical runtime efficiency (as most of the work is done in library code, written in C).

10 lines of C are so much nicer than 3000 lines of Python, too - what's your point?

And it seems pretty silly to count the library code in when you talk about 3000 lines of C but not when you talk about the 10 lines of Python, *especially* when you actually rely on the fact that all Python really does is call C code in order to be able to assert that Python does not impose a efficiency penalty...

The .NET API patent, mono, and GNOME

Posted Jan 19, 2006 16:07 UTC (Thu) by RobSeace (subscriber, #4435) [Link]

Also, that presumes that .Net/C# is "nicer than C", which is something
I'd need some serious convincing to accept... But, I suppose it does
depend on one's definition of "nicer"... By some definitions, I suppose
you could say that Basic is "nicer" than C; but I still wouldn't want to
write any real-world code in it, either...

The .NET API patent, mono, and GNOME

Posted Jan 19, 2006 20:31 UTC (Thu) by mitchskin (guest, #32405) [Link]

Okay, yes, this one was subjective. I figured that the language/VM controversy that GNOME went through in spring 2004 was fueled by people's desire for something nicer. I mean, part of the reason that Miguel was so into Mono was that writing Evolution in C was painful. And that out-of-process Bonobo components didn't perform as well as he had hoped. It's not just the language, it's also garbage collection and the type/component system that I think was part of the draw.

At the library level, C is a good choice in a lot of contexts, but when you start writing large applications like Evolution that I think people really start to want something different. Maybe "core" was the wrong word; I thought people used it to include things like Evolution, which is how I meant it.

The .NET API patent, mono, and GNOME

Posted Jan 19, 2006 23:25 UTC (Thu) by russell (guest, #10458) [Link]

Is it any surprise that evolution is so buggy or difficult to write, when the authors idea of a fix is to blame the tools rather than the design. "Fixing C" is just introducing more problems, i.e. bloat, patent issues, dividing the community, etc, etc. And all for what, because they didn't want to change evolution's design.

The .NET API patent, mono, and GNOME

Posted Jan 21, 2006 15:32 UTC (Sat) by bronson (subscriber, #4806) [Link]

You're saying they wrote Mono because they didn't want to refactor Evolution??

hoooookay, if that's what you want to believe...


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