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The Cost of Embedded Production

The Cost of Embedded Production

Posted Dec 3, 2005 18:33 UTC (Sat) by smoogen (subscriber, #97)
Parent article: LinkSys courts Linux hackers with WRT54GL (LinuxDevices)

Nearly 10 years ago, I worked for a company that had written a browser that hoped to get bought up by a big company like Oracle or Microsoft.. when that didnt work out.. they found that writing a browser for set-top boxes, PS2, medical monitors, and hand-held devices might save the company... but in order to do that, they needed to send a lot of desktop memory/CPU hungry programmers, qa, and marketing people to a boot-camp for them to deal with a world where memory cant be upgraded, cpu is usually 10 years behind the times, and a core dump can mean that their Mom died in hospital.

The main things I remember from the boot-camp were that every computerized product has at least the following costs when a company decides to market something:

Upstream Licensing Costs
Development Costs
Quality Assurance Costs
Maintenance Costs
Marketing Costs
Hardware Costs

And while the costs per units were usually seen in 1-5 dollar sizes.. the numbers of units that would be manufactured at a time went from 10,000 to 1,000,000 units. The second issue was that embedded hardware have fixed sales prices that are usually much lower than shelf price (usually on the order of 10-20%). So a 50.00 Linksys router means a 5.00-10.00 to Cisco/Linksys after you cover the 20% Best Buy gets, the 40% the middle men get and the various shipping and storage costs that take 20-30%. [Which is why you can buy a semi-black market linksys in Taiwan for $10-$15] That meant that costs have to be contained to that 5.00 a unit.

While Linux has a zero/unit licensing cost, its development, qa and maintenance costs are higher than the fixed VxWorks costs which basically bundles all that together in their finished licensed product. Cisco also probably has a large fixed contract with VxWorks so the costs are cut across every Cisco product versus just the Linksys.

Second embedded hardware costs do not go as nX but can go from X^2 to X^n. Doubling the amount of ram in a system can quadruple or sextuple the price of parts being used.. depending on extra power consumption, testing, parts, size of product, etc. Being able to cut back a CPU clock speed can increase reliability which cut maintenance costs.

If anything.. this should help spur Linux hackers more. You need to figure out a way to use a smaller cpu, memory footprint than the current VxWorks and offer more features (or better reliability with the features that exist).


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The Cost of Embedded Production

Posted Dec 4, 2005 9:59 UTC (Sun) by larryr (guest, #4030) [Link] (2 responses)

While Linux has a zero/unit licensing cost, its development, qa and maintenance costs are higher than the fixed VxWorks costs which basically bundles all that together in their finished licensed product.

Case studies or other data? In using VxWorks and Linux for product development I have not found anything VxWorks "bundles all that together" any more than Linux... I have not seen any technical or cost advantage of VxWorks over Linux.

If anything.. this should help spur Linux hackers more. You need to figure out a way to use a smaller cpu, memory footprint than the current VxWorks and offer more features (or better reliability with the features that exist).

Linux is already competetive with VxWorks (or significantly better) in those ways. Nevertheless I do not think a sufficient effort will be made by [the open source community] to develop a solution which provides the capabilities in 2MB flash and 8MB RAM that have been provided in 4MB flash and 16MB RAM, because there is simply not enough of a value proposition. If it was something like a difference between 50USD retail and 150USD retail, then I think it might be considered worth the effort to get Linux to run adequately on the 50USD box, but for something like 50USD vs 75USD, I would not expect there to be sufficient motivation to get it to run as well on the 50USD box when it already runs fine on the 75USD box.

Larry

You say

Posted Dec 5, 2005 21:26 UTC (Mon) by Baylink (guest, #755) [Link] (1 responses)

we've got nothing in common; no common ground to start from..

Oh, wait. Wrong thread.

... that you've worked with VxWorks, and blah blah...

But, have you just programmed with it?

Or have you negotiated the multi-hundred-thousand unit sales contracts, which may include bundled programmer support which a vendor shipping Linux would likely have to either expense internally or pay someone outside for?

You can't bundle support into free.

You say

Posted Dec 9, 2005 2:36 UTC (Fri) by jhwang107 (guest, #34421) [Link]

Right, there are some hidden costs when using Linux, but the same goes to VxWorks based system(s).

You still have to spend time to port the BSP codes, and you still have to spend time test the protocols, fine tune. Overhead for running automated tests on VxWorks is too much for a small system, but may be ok for larger systems. But then again, on large systems, memory isnt a issue, so use Linux not VxWorks.

Linux is just easier to work with compare to VxWorks.
Yeah, in general VxWorks takes less foot print. But I have to mention it is really annoying to have to reinitialize the VxWorks based systems we have *every time* we make a minor configuration change. For what it is worth, choose Nucleus over VxWorks in a peer to peer comparism.

Their licensing cost isnt cheap either. Might as well take the money and increase your memory size.


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