Microsoft, the "Vienna Conclusions," and the UN World Summit (Heise Online)
The Vienna Conclusions drawn up for the UN's World Summit on the Information Society WSIS) were presented in an edited version in Tunis: Digital Rights Management was inserted where "free software" used to be. It turned out that these changes were made at the request of Thomas Lutz, a member of the management board at Microsoft Austria, and ÖVP representative Carina Felzmann, who also heads a PR and lobbying firm. The Chancellor of Austria published the text presented in Tunis. His office has yet to react to a query in this matter that heise online placed last Sunday." FSFE representation Georg Greve has written about his experience at WSIS in posts dated November 16, November 22 and another on DRM promotion also from November 22.
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No Shock
Posted Nov 27, 2005 7:33 UTC (Sun) by b7j0c (guest, #27559) [Link]
Just another example of UN corruption, preference to corporate interests, and unaccountability. This is what happens when you create an organization of lifelong bureaucrats who are not accountable to an electorate.
No Shock
Posted Nov 27, 2005 10:32 UTC (Sun) by epeeist (guest, #1743) [Link]
> Just another example of UN corruption, preference to corporate interests, and unaccountability.
Just another kneejerk American opinion regurgitating the current government, neocon and rightwing press mantra.
The blog entries are much more reasoned and actually illuminate the issue. The cheap shot above does nothing but give the outside world the idea that Americans just accept the propoganda of their governement.
No Shock
Posted Nov 27, 2005 12:10 UTC (Sun) by Los__D (guest, #15263) [Link]
Don't let the troll get to you. Check his message history...
No Shock
Posted Nov 27, 2005 15:23 UTC (Sun) by arcticwolf (guest, #8341) [Link]
The parent of the grandparent of your post? Also, how *do* you check someone else's message history?
No Shock
Posted Nov 27, 2005 16:22 UTC (Sun) by Los__D (guest, #15263) [Link]
Yeah, grandparent...
I see now that it's apparently not possible to search for a specific users comments, but I've never seen a word of reason from him, and a lot of badmouthing everything...
Check his history
Posted Nov 28, 2005 0:18 UTC (Mon) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]
Google is your friend.
Check his history
Posted Nov 28, 2005 6:01 UTC (Mon) by Los__D (guest, #15263) [Link]
Perfect, thx! :D
No Shock
Posted Nov 28, 2005 17:46 UTC (Mon) by b7j0c (guest, #27559) [Link]
>> I see now that it's apparently not possible to search for a specific users comments, but I've never seen a word of reason from him,
amazing, i am apparently a troll and a jerk for holding opinions, yet everyone else feels perfectly free to make personal insults here, doing so only when they think the majority are on their side (meaning, its safe).
where in this thread have i, without any context to the subject, simply insulted another user? (which is what you are doing)
No Shock
Posted Nov 30, 2005 12:00 UTC (Wed) by Los__D (guest, #15263) [Link]
Hmmm, I've been looking at comments again, not just looking at the few I encountered before.
Besides a few like this one (Which I still hold is just badmouthing the UN for no reason) and you Novell pieces, maybe I've been a little triggerhappy, and I'm sorry about that.
No Shock... action.
Posted Nov 27, 2005 19:10 UTC (Sun) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link]
" Just another kneejerk American opinion regurgitating the currentgovernment, neocon and rightwing press mantra. "
So what is the solution(i'm not American) ?
From a democratic point of view Microsot has the majority to rule, and as
a long time aforism, it is knowned that power corrupts, and absolute power
corrupts absolutly! So Microsoft is corrupted, and navigates in another
sea of corruption, then those outcomes are only to be expected!... BETTER
THEY WHERE PLANED SOME TIME AGO(for sure) !!!... WHEN EVERYBODY WAS
PRAISING LINUX/OSS IN ITS DIRECTIONS AND DEVELOPMENT FOCUS...
Why havent users migrated in a big wave to open source, pulling that way,
litterally, the rug out of Microsoft feet ? Its only FUD ? Or is the
community at sleep ?
What can be done to avoid a forced harm in the direction of permitting
Microsoft to lock the prevasive hardware platform to itself ?
*What are going to be the prioritys of future development*, because
without it the grand masses wont change side in desktop and by consequence
in the majority of server, and in consequence microsoft retains the power
to *corrupt* as it pleases ???...
Trowing stones wont do any good, but if nothing *DIFFERENT FROM USUAL* is
done the OSS will find itself outcasted or severely impared by law
regulations to the point of near dissolution(big server vendors
remaining), because 10000 developers cant do anything if they are locked
away or neglect the grand masses of users.
Code, not words
Posted Nov 28, 2005 7:22 UTC (Mon) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]
From a democratic point of view Microsot has the majority to ruleNot true; this is not The Lord of the Rings. Microsoft has nothing to rule, but they have a big pile of money.
Or is the community at sleep ?Nope, the community is working together, coding and solving bugs.
*What are going to be the prioritys of future development*Priorities are set by those who do the coding. In some companies, priorities are set by those who pay for development. Nothing earth-shattering most of the time, but at least they do something (other than talk).
Trowing stones wont do any good, but if nothing *DIFFERENT FROM USUAL* is done the OSS will find itself outcastedNonsense. If you are so worried and want to implement a better driver model, a higher level XML layer, anything that has the word "advanced" on it, or whatever; just learn how to program and do it. Otherwise you are just wasting our time.
10000 developers cant do anything if they are locked away or neglect the grand masses of users.Yeah, right. Show us the code.
Code, not words
Posted Nov 28, 2005 7:36 UTC (Mon) by deepfire (guest, #26138) [Link]
In other words you tell him: "Shut up and code, slave!"
If there was anything else in your post, i missed it, sorry.
Code, not words
Posted Nov 28, 2005 16:03 UTC (Mon) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]
In other words you tell him: "Shut up and code, slave!"My message is rather the old "code talks louder than words". mmarq has a convoluted logic which is hard to follow and which sounds like telling other people to accept his priorities, based on a flaky logic (and never well substantiated IMHO). Just warning about the impending doom once and again is not enough; I think that his message would benefit if he spent some effort actually doing something about it.
If there was anything else in your post, i missed it, sorry.That is the advantage of the written word: you can go over it as many times as you want, until you get it.
Code, not words
Posted Nov 28, 2005 23:15 UTC (Mon) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link]
" mmarq has a convoluted logic which is hard to follow and which sounds like telling other people to accept his priorities, based on a flaky logic (and never well substantiated IMHO). "
How is hard to understand scepticals and confined brains... i want to see code... i only can see code... i dont understand nothing but code... (why, where, purpouse, reason, and *FUTILITY*, are out of question!)
So, as speaking of logic here is something that also applyies to you :
"That is the advantage of the written word: you can go over it as many times as you want, until you get it."
Go get it "code tiger"!
No Shock
Posted Nov 28, 2005 17:37 UTC (Mon) by b7j0c (guest, #27559) [Link]
>> Just another kneejerk American opinion regurgitating the current government, neocon and rightwing press mantra.
thats right, my comments about corporate control are certainly straight off of fox news.
reread the comment. i am COMPLAINING about the injection of corporate interests.
and of course my comments about corruption at the UN are certainly straight from the nut gallery, right? is that why koffi anan's own son was recently implicated in the oil-for-food corruption scandal? oh i guess my complaint about people being BRIBED by CORPORATIONS is once again straight from the desk of sean hannity.
and my call that a government be elected? wow! so radical.
and now i'm a troll? i would rather be a troll than a political illiterate.
No Shock
Posted Nov 29, 2005 3:31 UTC (Tue) by beoba (guest, #16942) [Link]
What's with the anger? Calm down.
no shock indeed
Posted Nov 27, 2005 13:03 UTC (Sun) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]
Actually, lifelong bureaucrats had nothing to do with the revision. There were several of them among the members of the panel; but those responsible for the evil substitution seem to be a member of a management board, a politician and an elected chancellor. So, a more accurate (but still biased) conclusion might be "This is what you get when you have a democratically elected body on top of a capitalistic system". So here's a third, more balanced opinion: "This is what you get when money talks".You should improve your reading and comprehension skills, if you get the chance: conclusions must be drawn from the text, not imprinted upon it.
actually...
Posted Nov 27, 2005 13:21 UTC (Sun) by rmstar (guest, #3672) [Link]
Actually, this is what you get when idealistic people have to deal withshrewd, very experienced politicians/lobyists. They have a bag of tricks
this long, and are absolutely cold-bloded when it comes to applying them.
Hey, it's their job, and they do it well. I bet what they did here is
known as a long established technique with a name involving "classic".
So what happened here was that the folks on our side were simply
unexperienced and were ****ed like nobody's business. While they were
trying to convince people with arguments, the others were just
maneuvering.
Incidentally, this is the same reason why free trade agreements between
1st and 3rd world countries always turn foul for the latter. The
agreements are great in principle, and would probably work. But then when
the details are negotiated, novice negotiators, or even experienced
negotiators meet world class M.F. who do not think they've achieved
anything if they haven't screwed you thrice over.
That said, it is a very sad state of affairs. And everybody is right being
angry at them and this outcome. I am.
actually...
Posted Nov 27, 2005 19:25 UTC (Sun) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link]
" So what happened here was that the folks on our side were simplyunexperienced and were ****ed like nobody's business "
Ive read from a lot of places, and in different contexts, that when in
politics something happens, it dosent happen by chance, but it was
planned...
"Our" side where already ****ed, even before they got there.
There is a terrorist(guerrila) world wide war on OSS, giving all
indications that the worst terrorists arent in some cave in some desert
mountain, but sit at confortable offices, elected by "us", and empowered
by "us".
SALE! -90%! three silver thingies.
Posted Nov 27, 2005 21:29 UTC (Sun) by gvy (guest, #11981) [Link]
well, that's Christian America. sad to see they've sold Him too, even if not for Ag$30.
(if you're going to get overly sad, come here to Russia or Ukraine: even if say Youshchenko turned out to be exactly the kind of bastards you describe ...heck, I voted for him too and now he's been asking his friend Gates for an advice on whom to approve as a minister of what-considers-IT-too here... -- there *are* still people here who actually *are* worth talking with and who just don't do this sort of screwer's business)
no shock indeed
Posted Nov 28, 2005 7:46 UTC (Mon) by deepfire (guest, #26138) [Link]
> You should improve your reading and comprehension skills,> if you get the chance: conclusions must be drawn from the text, not
> imprinted upon it.
You cannot take the text out of the wider context without devastating
effect on quality of judgement.
no shock indeed
Posted Nov 28, 2005 9:45 UTC (Mon) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]
Care to elaborate? Which context is lost? Where do you see the "lifelong bureaucrats" or the people "unaccountable to an electorate" in the text, apart from the "UN" in the title?
well well well ...
Posted Nov 27, 2005 16:15 UTC (Sun) by vblum (guest, #1151) [Link]
This is not a UN problem. It's an Austrian problem. Please direct your criticism at the Republic of Austria and its elected representatives. A bunch of determined lobbyists tried a dirty trick with them, and it worked.
This reflects back mostly on the lobbyists, and their backers. Their behavior is outrightly unethical. Why would you want to do business with someone like that?
About the UN: please try to convert the UN into an elected structure with some real power - HA! Who do you think would be the first to oppose that? No, national governments are not in the habit of giving up their own control and power lightly. This UN is the best available deal, at this time. The alternative used to be a continued exchange of political viewpoints via warships. At least "free software or not" would be a comparatively small problem then.
well well well ...
Posted Nov 28, 2005 19:51 UTC (Mon) by pglennon (guest, #649) [Link]
well said. thanks. this is usually a cogent bunch, but this thread seems to have degenerated into a slashdot pit fight ( while retaining the intellectualism, of course ).
Cheers,
-P
Were the modifications sanctioned by the UN?
Posted Dec 1, 2005 10:46 UTC (Thu) by Felix.Braun (guest, #3032) [Link]
I'm sorry if I should be suffering from my intermittent english-inhibition (I'm not a native speaker) while reading the referenced article. But the way I understand the article, the UN have nothing to do with the Microsoft-friendly additions to the Vienna-Conclusions document. Actually, this article makes that point rather clearly. Thus, it seems to me that the UN-bashing that has been going on in this thread is completely uncalled for.
As far as I understand it the following has happened:
- In preparation for the WSIS, the Austrian government decides to have its own conference on "ITC + Creativity" which was co-sponsored by Microsoft. As part of that conference, there was a panel on "Digital Rights / Creative Commons", in which some rather clued-in individuals participated.
- This panel drew up a set of conclusions, that were to be presented at the WSIS in Tunis in a brochure published by the Austrian government called "The Vienna Conclusions".
- Unfortunately, the text that actually was distributed in Tunis contained some editing to the original conclusions, which misrepresent the findings of the "Digital Rights / Creative Commons" panel.
- These changes were made without consulting the members of the panel.
This would mean that Dr. Peter Aurelius Bruck the "Editor-in-Chief" of the brochure that the Austrian Chancellor's Office published, may have some serious explaining to do. In my opinion it does not however cast any bad light on the UN.
Were the modifications sanctioned by the UN?
Posted Dec 2, 2005 17:50 UTC (Fri) by 2803 (guest, #34284) [Link]
I think that Bruck was bought and paid for by Lutz...
You need to remember that anytime M$ is threatened they turn into vengeful bastards and would rather ruin society then allow society the pleasures of happiness.
As for those of you who can't understand why Linux hasn't run over M$ yet...people get set in their ways and don't change in a split second. If it is any hint as to why the whole world hasn't gone Linux happy...try moving a user from Outlook 2000 to Outlook 2002/2003. They would rather have security holes then have to learn a new email tool.
"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them into it in the first place." -Douglas Adams