It's Final - MA Goes With Open Document (Groklaw) [LWN.net]

Groklaw reports the Commonwealth of Massachusetts has posted its final decision to use only formats that conform to the Open Document format for office productivity applications. "The bottom line is this: whose documents are they? Do the people of Massachusetts have the right to control their own documents? Does a governmental agency have the right to decide what software it wishes to use, particularly if it believes it can save money? If it does, then all the hue and cry is pointless. And the real issue, as Kriss pointed out, is the issue of sovereignty, and the very important issues of access and control not only now but also in the distant future."

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It's Final - MA Goes With Open Document (Groklaw)

Posted Sep 25, 2005 1:26 UTC (Sun) by sidboyce (guest, #10891) [Link] (3 responses)

This may be the start of the "dog wagging the tail" and not "tail wagging the dog". I've listened to the .mp3 file of the meeting, the State's representatives were clear, concise and steadfast in their objectives. Microsoft and its allies repeated arguments that were of a kind to be expected from snivelling kids, but they restrained from throwing their toys out of their prams during the meeting. They were told that if they met the requirements they would be welcomed, IBM even said that if Microsoft were to make their formats open and for peer review, everyone would welcome the move and rally behind them. Despite the cordial manner of the meeting, you could guage that Microsoft were saying that the best policy would be for Mass. to do an exclusive deal with them, but Mass. were adamant that they, as the customer and a Sovereign state made the decisions rather than have a single company dictate the way they ran state IT affairs. Lots of references to the drawbacks and pitfalls of using proprietary formats, citing their own experiences and that of recent events in Louisiana and Mississippi.
There is a moral there somewhere that states ... if you try gathering up all the candy in the store in your hands, at some point you end up with very few for yourself.

It's Final - MA Goes With Open Document (Groklaw)

Posted Sep 25, 2005 1:51 UTC (Sun) by smitty_one_each (subscriber, #28989) [Link]

>There is a moral there somewhere that states ... if you try gathering up all the candy in the store in your hands, at some point you end up with very few for yourself.

How often can you bring up 'I Love Lucy' in a technical forum?
http://www.lucylibrary.com/Pages/ill-guide-2.html

9/15/52: "Job Switching". The little clip is a hoot.

It's Final - MA Goes With Open Document (Groklaw)

Posted Sep 26, 2005 3:56 UTC (Mon) by sitaram (guest, #5959) [Link] (1 responses)

> citing their own experiences and that of recent events in Louisiana and Mississippi.

Could someone elaborate on this? I must have missed something somewhere... :-)

It's Final - MA Goes With Open Document (Groklaw)

Posted Sep 26, 2005 12:29 UTC (Mon) by nathan (subscriber, #3559) [Link]

Groklaw has something on this too. Short story is that different services have their digital data transmitted via different encodings, so they couldn't talk to each other after Katrina when the phones went dead.

http://web.archive.org/web/20190925145341/http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2005091305273070
http://web.archive.org/web/20200210022437/http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050916105216639

Inside Story

Posted Sep 25, 2005 19:51 UTC (Sun) by ncm (guest, #165) [Link] (3 responses)

I'd like for somebody to visit with with the people involved, in Massachusetts, and get a rundown on the kinds of pressure and threats that Microsoft used to try to strangle the initiative. We've seen lots of other places cave under that treatment (Peru, most remarkably), and it would be helpful to know just what a government is up against, and prepare for it.

MS bribing and/or threatening higher-level officials (as must have happened in Peru), funding opposition candidates (as must have happened in Brazil), press releases by astroturf organizations (as in Massachusetts), and threats of lawsuits (likewise) must be among the cruder tactics. Those all must have happened late in the game, but the measures that strangle most of these initiatives before they reach the stage of public commitment ought to be more easily countered.

Every such announcement or commitment, even when later sabotaged, makes the next such initiative easier to start.

Inside Story

Posted Sep 25, 2005 22:58 UTC (Sun) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]

> kinds of pressure and threats that Microsoft used to try to strangle the initiative

You seem to be implying that MS may have been involved in something sleezy. I just can't believe that ;-)

Money talking

Posted Sep 26, 2005 10:28 UTC (Mon) by man_ls (guest, #15091) [Link]

I don't think it is anything out of the ordinary when dealing with big money. Not necessary threatening or exerting evident pressure; but just getting your rich buddies to talk with other rich buddies, hiring some people and requesting payback for some favors.

In my limited experience, I once saw Microsoft people in action in Brussels, and they are smiling and confident business weasels. Maybe in Peru it is different, but not in Massachusetts near their home turf.

Inside Story

Posted Sep 28, 2005 12:11 UTC (Wed) by wookey (guest, #5501) [Link]

But Peru has just passed a Free Software procurement law. That doesn't sound being 'got at' by Microsoft. Are you referring to some other event in peru?

Here's the mp3 link, almost direct.

Posted Sep 26, 2005 1:14 UTC (Mon) by Max.Hyre (subscriber, #1054) [Link] (1 responses)

I had to chase through three or four pages to get to the file itself, so I thought I'd simplify things. The kosher way to it is one click removed. (The mp3 itself is subject to relocation, so this site says they'll maintain the link.)

Note also that they ask you to download the whole thing & then listen to it, rather than streaming it. Anyone know how it makes a difference?

Why download instead of listen on-line.

Posted Sep 26, 2005 3:09 UTC (Mon) by jimwelch (guest, #178) [Link]

I GUESS that maybe the player would leave the link open during the entire listening. Most web servers have limits on the number of open ports.

This is an uneducated guess. Your Mileage May Vary. (I know TCP/IP, but not the players involved.)

"Did Microsoft send the wrong guy to Massachusetts' ODF hearing?"

Posted Oct 1, 2005 1:39 UTC (Sat) by stock (guest, #5849) [Link]

At ZDNet this week appeared a very interesting article about Microsofts
role during the Massechusetts' ODF Hearing :

"Did Microsoft send the wrong guy to Massachusetts' ODF hearing?"
http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=1913

Listen also to the audio of this ODF hearing :
http://www.peapodcast.com/msc-oss-sig/MTLC-MAOpenFormats-...

See also
http://www.softwaregarden.com/cgi-bin/oss-sig/wiki.pl?Ope...

"Either Microsoft thought the state was bluffing, or it gravely
miscalculated when it didn't send one of its top executives - either
Steve Ballmer or Bill Gates (someone who could make a decision on the
spot) - to that last hearing on Sept. 16, 2005. The reason I say
"gravely" is that there is much more at stake for Microsoft than it may
realize. Not only does the ODF decision extend to any of the state's
80,000 employees who may need access to an Office-like productivity
solution, but also to nearly everyone whose business with the state may
involve the exchange of electronic documents."

This Burocrat of Massachussets starts talking, mentions some browser
blues with the FEMA websites during Hurricane Katrina, which only seem to
work with MS IE, and finally sweeps the floor with the strategy of
Microsoft on document format policy. This was not just an ordinary
hearing.

Robert