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If it's free, then you are the product

If it's free, then you are the product

Posted Sep 5, 2026 1:23 UTC (Sat) by marcH (subscriber, #57642)
Parent article: A note on subscription prices from LWN

By contrast, the quality of LWN articles is a constant reminder that "if it's free, then you are the product". Sadly, that contrast is becoming rarer and rarer. Please hang in there, we need you.

> Some costs (health insurance, naturally) have gone up rather more than that.

*sigh*, please don't mention that again... please don't remind us that a significant fraction of (world wide) subscriptions has to go to this insurance racket unique across all rich countries. Too depressing; ignorance is bliss.

Any ancestor with a different nationality maybe? :-)


to post comments

If it's free, then you are the product

Posted Sep 8, 2026 3:57 UTC (Tue) by linuxrocks123 (subscriber, #34648) [Link] (12 responses)

So you'd prefer OHIP? Let's run the numbers.

If you're in the US, about 7%-8% of payroll will go to employer-paid health insurance premiums. If you're in Ontario, 1%-2% of payroll will go to the Employer Health Tax, and another 5%-13% will go to withholding for employee provincial income taxes, much of which then funds OHIP.

After payroll, when the employee goes to actually spend his salary, 13% of his purchases will go to national plus provincial sales taxes. Much of those sales taxes go to fund, you guessed it, OHIP.

Waving a magic wand and having the government provide services doesn't make those services free, man. Part of LWN's payroll would be going to fund healthcare for its employees no matter where those employees happen to live. The only difference is whether the amount siphoned off for that is invisible, like in Ontario, or is disclosed honestly as a dedicated line item, like in the US.

If it's free, then you are the product

Posted Sep 8, 2026 8:29 UTC (Tue) by NAR (subscriber, #1313) [Link]

An other difference is that if it's state-supplied healthcare funded by tax, it might happen that people earning less are paying less but get the same benefits as people paying more. However, if the taxes are too low, the state-funded healthcare might get quite lousy and the people with more money use private healthcare for better (or simply more timely) service.

If it's free, then you are the product

Posted Sep 8, 2026 8:41 UTC (Tue) by taladar (subscriber, #68407) [Link] (3 responses)

It is quite dishonest on your part to suggest that all taxes paid on both income and sales are used to fund healthcare exclusively.

Besides, more rigorous studies than your back of the envelope calculation have concluded that people in the US pay about twice as much on healthcare as everyone else.

If it's free, then you are the product

Posted Sep 8, 2026 19:19 UTC (Tue) by linuxrocks123 (subscriber, #34648) [Link] (2 responses)

Of course we spend more on healthcare per capita. We're a bunch of fatasses:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesit...

3/4 of Americans are fatasses versus only 1/4 of Canadians. Fatasses have a _LOT_ more health problems. You don't think MAYBE that might have more to do with our increased per capita healthcare spend than "gr33dy 1n5ur4nc3 c0mp4n135?"

Astoundly, as far as I can tell, NO ONE doing these per capita healthcare spending comparisons has ever bothered to try to normalize by percentage of fatasses -- even though you'd OBVIOUSLY have to do that if you wanted to generate good numbers. I therefore infer that those people must have a goal other than generating good numbers.

Please, stop

Posted Sep 8, 2026 19:22 UTC (Tue) by jake (editor, #205) [Link] (1 responses)

As noted, this is not on-topic for LWN. Please end this thread, thanks.

jake

Please, stop

Posted Sep 8, 2026 19:27 UTC (Tue) by linuxrocks123 (subscriber, #34648) [Link]

If it's free, then you are the product

Posted Sep 8, 2026 9:27 UTC (Tue) by kleptog (subscriber, #1183) [Link] (1 responses)

I would say the issue is more:

* That health insurance is tied to your job. If you leave your job you lose coverage making it harder to switch jobs than necessary. A system where part of the payment goes via taxes means unemployed people are still insured while not bankrupting them.

* As a small business, LWN is not in a position to negotiate as good premiums as larger businesses.

* As a large purchaser of health care, a government entity is in a position to tell the health providers where to go when they start charging exorbitant prices.

There are hybrid models, where health care is partially funded by a payroll tax, and partially direct premiums from people. It's not where the money comes from that makes the difference, it's the whole landscape around it.

If it's free, then you are the product

Posted Sep 8, 2026 19:24 UTC (Tue) by linuxrocks123 (subscriber, #34648) [Link]

If LWN can't get good rates, it is free to simply not provide health insurance and direct its employees to use the ACA exchanges. That's a perfectly valid option for a small business (under 50 employees).

The exchanges are federally subsidized, so that option is very attractive for the self-employed as well as small business owners and employees.

If it's free, then you are the product

Posted Sep 8, 2026 12:18 UTC (Tue) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link] (1 responses)

A free market works only when there is actual competition. The only thing worse than a public monopoly is a private monopoly - because it's more efficient at extracting profit.

The problem with health insurance is really simple and every country except the USA understood it: competition just does not work in certain "markets". That's it. Free markets are fantastic for selling computers and smart phones but they utterly fail in other areas. One size does not fits all.

Health is insanely complicated and extremely emotional and "customers" are completely ignorant and such an easy prey. Moreover, the corrupt health insurance industry in the US has been very successful in making it even more complicated - because they know obfuscation destroys competition. This is very well documented and they are not even trying to hide it. They know that crying "socialists!" on social media is usually enough because no one reads Excel spreadsheets. Some journalists do read Excel spreadsheets but no one reads those journalists anymore and they are dying (unlike LWN).

I was employed in the US for years and it was so ironic hearing everyone complain about how they were getting zero choice of insurance and extremely little choice of provider and limited access to treatment. Much less choice than with most single payer systems. And those were the people lucky enough to have some of the best, employer-paid insurance.

> Waving a magic wand and having the government provide services doesn't make those services free, man.

Of course not free. It only makes it twice cheaper for better average outputs[*] - as measured in all developed countries. Because in this area, only governments are big enough to have enough knowledge and negotiating power. Single payer also avoids funding a very large, parasitic "health care finance" industry, not needed any more. Is single-payer perfect? Absolutely not. It's the "worst system, except for all the private insurance ones."

By the way "single payer" is the obvious option (except in the corrupt US) but it's only a very small part of how you design health care and there are massive differences between systems across countries. Some have a very large private sector. Public health insurance does not imply public health care at all. But they are all conveniently regrouped under the same "socialist" banner when (not) seen from the US. Wait, people outside the US have doctors? Wow, I had no idea! ;-)

[*] the super rich do not care about "averages" and the US system _is_ better for them.

If it's free, then you are the product

Posted Sep 8, 2026 12:34 UTC (Tue) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]

> By the way "single payer" is the obvious option (except in the corrupt US) but it's only a very small part of how you design health care and there are massive differences between systems across countries. Some have a very large private sector. Public health insurance does not imply public health care at all.

Forgot to say: multiple countries provide basic, tax-funded health insurance that people or employers can "top-up" with private insurance. Both insurance types can co-exist and they do!

There is a very large variety of systems, every country is different and it's hard to compare. But there is only one rich country that stands out by spending twice more per capita while still letting people go bankrupt when they get sick. Truly extraordinary.

If it's free, then you are the product

Posted Sep 8, 2026 13:28 UTC (Tue) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] (2 responses)

As someone actually living in Ontario, I'll take OHIP any day of the week over US-style healthcare.

Even though our system is stressed, I've had excellent healthcare when I've needed it. And nobody here goes bankrupt because of medical bills. And nobody worries about medical insurance if they lose their job or need to switch jobs.

The US is a complete outlier, paying much, much more per capita than Canada for medical care (and Canada's also pretty expensive by world standards) while having worse outcomes on pretty much every measure like life expectancy, infant mortality, maternal mortality, sexual health, and so on.

Off-topic

Posted Sep 8, 2026 14:11 UTC (Tue) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link]

Suffice it to say...we have opinions on health care and how it should be provided as well. That, however, is not really a topic for LWN, and we'll not be able to resolve it here. So perhaps we should all let this subthread rest at this point?

If it's free, then you are the product

Posted Sep 8, 2026 19:50 UTC (Tue) by linuxrocks123 (subscriber, #34648) [Link]

I wasn't trying to pick on OHIP, it just happened to be the system I'm familiar with because I used to help my now-wife with her Canadian income taxes. My wife had good experiences with OHIP, and she misses it. She especially misses the "every doctor is in-network" part.

I won't say any more on this except on the off-site off-ramp if anyone goes there, but I hope it's okay to clarify I wasn't trying to pick on Ontario.


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