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UI automation is necessary for accessibility

UI automation is necessary for accessibility

Posted Jul 13, 2026 15:31 UTC (Mon) by farnz (subscriber, #17727)
In reply to: UI automation is necessary for accessibility by paulj
Parent article: An update on the scraper situation

You're looking too far into the future - I'm saying that if there exists a system that's suitable for micropayments, there would be a Ko-fi, PayPal (friends and family only - I'm not expecting the full gamut of PayPal services to be taken over by it), Venmo, Zelle, or similar service competitor built around that system, and demonstrating that the system is suitable by being a friend-to-friend money transfer system for people in the USA (only - I'm not expecting this to be a global system) that outcompetes the existing payment systems.

If you can't build a system that's better than the existing payment systems for one country, then your assertion that your system is better than the existing payment systems is suspect; why hasn't someone used the network to outcompete the existing players?


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UI automation is necessary for accessibility

Posted Jul 13, 2026 16:10 UTC (Mon) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (4 responses)

Well,

a) even within a country there is very high regulatory friction (true for at least 2 of the biggest blocks in the world)

b) despite that friction, there are a number of places that do accept universal, distributed, micro-payments. And I find it as easy, if not easier, to use than the "retail friendly" stuff.

E.g., I topped up my kid's eSIM and I can just open the app on my Linux desktop, type my password (optional - my desktop is already obviously secured, but belt and braces), copy the address and amount from the payer's site (or the payer's processor) and send the payment. And it clears within a few minutes.

With the "retail friendly" stuff you prefer, the flow is similarish, but I type stuff (CC card) into the processor form, plus I have to type more stuff to satisfy algorithms, then I have to wait while it redirects through 1 or more websites - which sometimes fails - then I have to open an app on my Android phone, so I have to authenticate to my phone, then open the app and authenticate on it with another PIN, then I have to confirm the push notification - which sometimes will have failed to arrive. Then I have to go back to the website and click on a button there, and then wait for it to redirect back from the processor iframe or page to the original site. Also, sometimes, for whatever reason, the bank decides something is suspicious and blocks stuff and I have to phone them - sometimes that can take quite a while. Sometimes I'm abroad, and this can be a real PITA because of timezones (plus, cost of international phone calls - maybe I was buying the eSIM cause that was my Internet and phone access!).

I don't really see the major UI win for the "retail friendly" thing, the distributed Internet money micro-payments thing is actually a /lot/ easier and _far more reliable_ for me. But YMMV.

Also, because I want to have a phone that isn't a complete blob of god-knows-what crap from some big mobile company and all the companies that paid them to push their crap into said blob, and instead run a bit-more-open/far-fewer-blobs OS on my phone, this "retail friendly" app sometimes has failures after updates and I have to spend an hour on the phone to the bank to get them to clear some weird failure condition that so I can reauthenticate my phone. But that's another discussion.

Finally, the internet, distributed micro-payments thing is still very young. It is kind of normal that early technology still doesn't have optimal UI or adoption. If "it must have optimal UI and UX" is a precondition for believing anyone should use it, then... it's catch-22 (esp. if a great part of the UX hinges on adoption).

Again, perfect is the enemy of good. Despite the lack of perfection, there are many use-cases where distributed Internet money beats the "retail friendly" stuff. And in time, it can go from "good enough for these use-cases" to "good enough for more", and with enough time, maybe we see enough adoption that the regulatory friction becomes unsustainable (particularly as our generation, which is driving the regulation because of vested interests, ages out of holding the reins of power).

UI automation is necessary for accessibility

Posted Jul 14, 2026 8:47 UTC (Tue) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (3 responses)

You are, however, by definition a "sophisticated user" taking responsibility for your own fraud and security risks.

The whole point of regulation is that unsophisticated users demonstrably don't have the knowledge and experience to take care of those risks, so we push them to the payment networks to handle. And that's why I'm focusing on the "why isn't there a retail platform suitable for unsophisticated users?" - because if you can't do that, you've not got a solution to the hard problems in payments, just to the easy ones.

UI automation is necessary for accessibility

Posted Jul 16, 2026 6:32 UTC (Thu) by raof (subscriber, #57409) [Link] (2 responses)

And, to amplify that point, the “regulatory friction” preventing this hypothetical universal payment system from becoming mainstream is the technical solution to the fraud and security risks that a mainstream system requires. I am, in fact, reasonably convinced that it is approximately the only feasible technical solution — that any solution to these problems will look a lot like the current regulatory environment, perhaps with some actors shuffled around.

I've certainly never seen a serious attempt to solve these problems which would not rapidly devolve into something looking like the current arrangement (but generally worse).

UI automation is necessary for accessibility

Posted Jul 16, 2026 8:46 UTC (Thu) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (1 responses)

> I've certainly never seen a serious attempt to solve these problems which would not rapidly devolve into something looking like the current arrangement (but generally worse).

The growing ecosystem of digital services using various kinds of decentralised, distributed Internet money would disagree with that.

UI automation is necessary for accessibility

Posted Jul 16, 2026 10:53 UTC (Thu) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link]

> > I've certainly never seen a serious attempt to solve these problems which would not rapidly devolve into something looking like the current arrangement (but generally worse).

> The growing ecosystem of digital services using various kinds of decentralised, distributed Internet money would disagree with that.

"that growing ecosystem of digital services" has _never _ seriously attempted to solve those problems. Quite the opposite, in fact.


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