Bug of feature? [LWN.net]

Bug of feature?

Posted Jul 2, 2026 10:08 UTC (Thu) by farnz (subscriber, #17727)
In reply to: Bug of feature? by rra
Parent article: Xsnow "protestware" in Debian

Part of the issue here is that there's no morally neutral shared standards to be found.

If you insist that upstream expressions of support for Ukraine are removed to protect residents of the Russian Federation, you upset one group to protect another. If you allow them to be kept in, as long as they're also upstream, you upset a different group to protect another.

This means that one of the questions Debian needs to be asking itself is "who are we willing to upset?".

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Bug of feature?

Posted Jul 2, 2026 10:27 UTC (Thu) by evgeny (subscriber, #774) [Link] (9 responses)

It's not about "upsetting" - unless by upsetting you mean potentially physical violence and/or legal actions. It's quite similar to the issue of free speech - you're free to express your opinion as long as it doesn't hurt (not morally, not!) somebody else.

And, BTW, please explain why an average Ukrainian gets upset by knowing that an average Russian user of Xsnow sees the Ukrainian flag with the same frequency or doesn't see it at all?

The only person who may be upset by reverting this feature is Xsnow's author. And he has already agreed to do it.

Bug of feature?

Posted Jul 2, 2026 10:41 UTC (Thu) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (8 responses)

Or, to put it as a Ukrainian friend has: "because Russian criminals are violent, Russians have pressured the xsnow maintainer into removing an expression of support for us - Debian is happy to see Ukrainian civilians killed by Russian military, but not Russians forced to stop using a little desktop toy for fear of their local criminals".

Bug of feature?

Posted Jul 2, 2026 11:00 UTC (Thu) by evgeny (subscriber, #774) [Link] (7 responses)

Do you believe *any* Russian citizen, unconditionally, whether they are a combatant or not, whether they support the war or not, whether they are a child or not, must be punished? I want to hear your opinion, not your hypothetical Ukrainian friend.

Bug of feature?

Posted Jul 2, 2026 11:25 UTC (Thu) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] (4 responses)

> Do you believe *any* Russian citizen, unconditionally, whether they are a combatant or not, whether they support the war or not, whether they are a child or not, must be punished? I want to hear your opinion, not your hypothetical Ukrainian friend.

Do you believe in collectively punishing *everyone else* is an acceptable way to avoid possibly punishing any Russian citizen?

Because that's the other side of your very-much-hypothetical question.

Bug of feature?

Posted Jul 2, 2026 11:38 UTC (Thu) by evgeny (subscriber, #774) [Link]

> Do you believe in collectively punishing *everyone else* is an acceptable way to avoid possibly punishing any Russian citizen?

Who, specifically, will be punished by reverting this Xsnow feature?

> Because that's the other side of your very-much-hypothetical question.

There is nothing hypothetical there. Please try to explain your thoughts more clearly.

Bug of feature?

Posted Jul 2, 2026 12:58 UTC (Thu) by LtWorf (subscriber, #124958) [Link] (2 responses)

> Do you believe in collectively punishing *everyone else* is an acceptable way to avoid possibly punishing any Russian citizen?

To be clear, removing a ukrainian flag from a software that is supposed to show christmas decorations doesn't punish anyone.

I've never heard of anyone that coming December takes out the box with the Ukrainian flags.

Do you know such a person to exist?

Bug of feature?

Posted Jul 2, 2026 13:27 UTC (Thu) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] (1 responses)

> To be clear, removing a ukrainian flag from a software that is supposed to show christmas decorations doesn't punish anyone.

What if those folks wanted that feature and are now deprived of the pleasure of using it? Yes, it's a very light punishment, but so what?

At best, this entire conversation is effectively just a watered-down variant of the classic "who is more important" trolley problem. At worst, it treats the aggressor and targets of a brutal war as morally equivalent.

Let's stop here

Posted Jul 2, 2026 14:10 UTC (Thu) by jzb (editor, #7867) [Link]

At this point I think we've reached the point where no minds are being changed and no new information is on offer. Let's move on, please.

Bug of feature?

Posted Jul 2, 2026 14:10 UTC (Thu) by zdzichu (subscriber, #17118) [Link] (1 responses)

Yes. Next question?

Or maybe not. Your username looks russian, so you are probably not impartial.

Stop now

Posted Jul 2, 2026 14:13 UTC (Thu) by jzb (editor, #7867) [Link]

It's obvious that this is no longer a productive conversation. Let's end it here. No further replies to this, please.