Nice to see an update [LWN.net]

Nice to see an update

Posted Apr 5, 2026 15:04 UTC (Sun) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582)
In reply to: Nice to see an update by jmalcolm
Parent article: No kidding: Gentoo GNU/Hurd

Thanks for the long explanation. In my opinion, this

> creating a true "GNU OS" instead of having to pass off Linux as "GNU/Linux"

could be read in many ways, but I choose to read it in terms of the reality of the last 30+ years: "Linux" is not a kernel but a collection of operating systems with the Linux kernel at their core. Since at least the mid 1990s, GNU utilities have been developed with the idea of being used in Linux, and (particularly with glibc) the development has been concurrent with Linux kernel development. Entire subsystems have been developed specifically for Linux, from systemd to audio (jack, pulse, pipewire...) to even display protocols (wayland -- which does work incidentally with other systems but Linux is primary). So, in 2026, not only is it wrong to « pass off Linux as "GNU/Linux » but it would be appropriate to call a Hurd-based Gentoo or Debian system "Linux/Herd", because the userland is Linux.

Why bother with Hurd? "Because it is conceptually interesting" is a strong argument. "Because people can spend their time how they like" is a valid argument. "Because it is copyleft" is not a useful argument at all. If it had been strictly GPL v2, it would have been helpful because it could have borrowed code from the Linux kernel (imagine a Hurd with a driver compatibility layer for Linux drivers). But it can't. As such, copyleft has no practical advantage over RedoxOS or BSD, who ensure their core is free software, but use persuasion, not legal compulsion, to encourage others to contribute likewise.

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Nice to see an update

Posted Apr 5, 2026 17:43 UTC (Sun) by sam_c (subscriber, #139836) [Link] (1 responses)

> If it had been strictly GPL v2, it would have been helpful because it could have borrowed code from the Linux kernel (imagine a Hurd with a driver compatibility layer for Linux drivers).

The Hurd did do this, and still does to an extent, so is not currently purely GPL v*: it is however in the process of migrating to rumpkernel, which allows to run NetBSD drivers in userland.

Importing drivers from Linux (both in gnumach and also in userland via netdde) has proved too complex as Linux moves quickly.

Nice to see an update

Posted Apr 5, 2026 18:12 UTC (Sun) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

> Importing drivers from Linux (both in gnumach and also in userland via netdde) has proved too complex as Linux moves quickly.

Given that I thought the whole point of a microkernel was to move everything possible (ie drivers etc) into userspace, this is probably the main reason why HURD doesn't use linux drivers (assuming that is true in the first place).

If a driver is compiled as a stand-alone executable, then its licence (which is NOT necessarily GPLv2) will not impact on the HURD licence (or vice versa).

(I gather there's a fair bit of MIT/BSD/v2+ code in linux, depending on the authors' whims. It's just that it's all compatible with pure v2.)

Cheers,
Wol