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Sharing stories on Scuttlebutt

By Daroc Alden
April 7, 2026

Not many people live on sailboats. Things may be better these days, but back in 2014 sailboat dwellers had to contend with lag-prone, intermittent, low-bandwidth internet connections. Dominic Tarr decided to fix the problem of keeping up with his friends by developing a delay-tolerant, fully distributed social-media protocol called Scuttlebutt. Nearly twelve years later, the protocol has gained a number of users who have their own, non-sailboat-related reasons to prefer a censorship-resistant, offline-first social-media system.

In Scuttlebutt, each person has an append-only log of information where each entry is signed with their private key; this log contains both data (such as social-media posts) and metadata (such as information on who is following whom). Since each entry in the log is signed, it doesn't matter by what route those entries reach interested recipients. When two computers running software that supports Scuttlebutt connect to each other, they exchange a list of which feeds they are interested in, and then share any entries that one has that the other doesn't. This is a straightforward example of a gossip protocol, and it provides a simple foundation for higher-level social-media applications.

Since each person's logs are separate, there is no need for a global consensus algorithm — it is normal and expected for each participant in the network to have a different view of what is going on. In fact, there is no central registry of protocol participants. Instead, people add their friends' feeds directly, and then organically discover other people by seeing who their friends interact with. By default, many Scuttlebutt clients will replicate the feeds of anyone within two degrees of separation: direct friends, and friends of friends. If a friend interacts with the post of someone more distant than that (replying to it, or just reacting to it with an emoji), most clients will display the unknown post as a button that adds the unknown post's feed to the set of feeds to follow.

Connections between computers can be made locally (typically announced over local WiFi via mDNS), or via relay servers on the internet called "rooms". This ensures that two people can keep in touch as long as they have some regular contact — meeting up in person, being online at the same time, or just having a mutual friend who meets those criteria. There is also a related project, tinySSB, that operates over LoRa radio with much smaller packet sizes and longer range. Either way, it's difficult to say how many people are using Scuttlebutt on a regular basis since the connections are formed opportunistically and the replication distance of feeds is limited. There is no such thing as a message that will propagate to the network as a whole.

The underlying network communication behind Scuttlebutt is relatively simple; it's an agreed set of binary formats for establishing connections, exchanging information on what feeds each participant is interested in, and then exchanging signed log entries. Since the underlying protocol is so simple, there are a number of implementations for users to choose from. Several of these also agree on the storage format for data at rest, allowing users to seamlessly switch between them. In addition to the expected social-media applications, there are also programs that use Scuttlebutt as a transport layer for Git, for sharing JavaScript packages, for sharing recipes, and for playing chess.

Below is a screenshot of one of the more popular clients, Manyverse, showing the friends-of-friends feed. The feed can be filtered and searched in various ways, but defaults to showing all posts the client is aware of in reverse chronological order. The other tabs on the left show private (encrypted) messages, interactions with one's own posts, and what other Scuttlebutt clients are currently connected (directly or via a relay), respectively.

[A screenshot of Manyverse, a  Scuttlebutt client.]

Since getting connected to Scuttlebutt requires starting with a friend's feed, it can be difficult to join in. The historical solution to this has been "pubs" — automated servers that do nothing but automatically follow your feed if you ask them to. There are a handful of public ones available. Following a pub's feed lets people new to the network see what is going on generally, and lets their own posts be visible to other people. In that sense, a pub can serve much the same role as a local Mastodon server by allowing people to connect to a specific existing community with a general theme. But, due to the nature of the internet, that also puts the burden of moderation on a pub's operator, to some extent. More generally, pubs run somewhat counter to the idea of a decentralized network to begin with, by creating a point of failure for people trying to join the network.

Over time, the Scuttlebutt community has recommended moving away from pubs and toward rooms, which just act as a traffic relay and not a part of the social graph. Rooms do allow people to see who else is online simultaneously (identified by public key, since without replicating their feed there is no metadata such as username available). So, one approach to joining the network is connecting to a chosen public room, looking at the posts of the random people who happen to be online, and deciding to follow some subset of them. Getting one's own posts out there still requires using a pub, contacting someone out-of-band, or being randomly chanced upon in a room. Another approach is to meet people in person and exchange Scuttlebutt feeds. Because users are free to curate their own lists of interesting people and ignore everyone else, spam is not too much of a problem.

The internet being what it is, however, the system does need some safeguards. In a centralized system, there can be a specific team responsible for moderation. In a distributed setting, that becomes a lot harder. For one thing, not all users of the protocol will agree on what content needs moderation. For another, the lack of a global consensus algorithm means that even if there were some group that agreed on moderation, there is no way that they could apply that decision to the whole network — by design.

The system that the Scuttlebutt ecosystem has settled on is based on blocking specific people and propagating those blocks. Anyone can simply decline to replicate a specific feed that they don't want to share, and by recording that decision in their own feed in a machine-readable way, it can propagate out to their friends who trust their judgment. That way a particular friend group only needs to block a troublesome source of spam or abuse once, instead of once per person. This isn't perfect — it essentially requires everyone to do a little moderation work for their friends — but it's the best solution available at the moment. The Scuttlebutt community has done some research into alternate approaches, such as distributed reputation systems, but none are in wide use.

If the experience of using Scuttlebutt were to be summarized in one word, that word would be "slow". Not in the sense that the applications are unresponsive, but in the sense that getting set up as part of the community takes a certain amount of time and attention. Following a new friend means synchronizing their feed and any new friends-of-friends, which in turn requires fetching their entire history of posts. Media, such as photos and videos, is stored and shared out-of-band, so this isn't as much data as it could be, but it still takes minutes to hours, depending on volume and internet connection quality.

When new posts are made, they also don't propagate instantly. It's entirely possible, and reasonably common, for someone to read their friends' posts, write lengthy replies, share a picture of some isolated location, all offline. When they reconnect, it results in a sudden flurry of activity. That style of interaction tends to encourage asynchronous, long-form exchanges — although of course there are still plenty of people who post short, microblogging-style messages as well.

There are many federated social-media platforms; fully distributed systems are much rarer because of the real challenges introduced by not having a global consensus or feed. On the other hand, given the toxicity of modern social media, maybe having software that focuses on individual relationships and eschews the idea of requiring people to stay constantly connected to participate in online discussions is a good thing. Interested readers should refer to Scuttlebutt's documentation on getting started.



to post comments

Gee...

Posted Apr 7, 2026 15:00 UTC (Tue) by bferrell (subscriber, #624) [Link] (1 responses)

It sounds a lot like UUCP

Gee...

Posted Apr 7, 2026 15:02 UTC (Tue) by daroc (editor, #160859) [Link]

Jon said the same thing when he was reviewing this article. I think it's a pretty apt analogy, other than the introduction of cryptographic signatures and the slightly different trust model.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 7, 2026 15:59 UTC (Tue) by Nahor (subscriber, #51583) [Link] (35 responses)

> There is no such thing as a message that will propagate to the network as a whole

Is there? We have only "six degrees of separation".
Or is time also a limiting factor as well? It may make sense to not get "new" messages from 2014.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 7, 2026 16:48 UTC (Tue) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75) [Link] (1 responses)

I think what they really mean is there's no way of pushing a message to everyone. It's theoretically possible for a message to be distributed to the whole network if it comes from someone who's friends with literally everyone, but that's vanishingly unlikely when the network gets big.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 7, 2026 17:01 UTC (Tue) by Nahor (subscriber, #51583) [Link]

Right, I misunderstood the "friends-of-friend" part. I initially thought it would download everything a friend has, instead of limiting the download to posts from friends-of-friend.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 7, 2026 16:54 UTC (Tue) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (31 responses)

Six degrees of separation is an idea from a work of fiction, and for it to be relevant requires you to assume that there are no disconnected subgraphs within Scuttlebutt. That is a rather strong assumption to make…

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 7, 2026 18:08 UTC (Tue) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75) [Link] (2 responses)

The idea of "six degrees of separation" was originally from a work of fiction, but it has been studied extensively by people interested in networks and networking, and it seems to work fairly well. Even the estimate of six seems to be good, though with the limitation you mentioned of possible disconnected subgraphs.

I think the point in this case, though, is that there's no way of guaranteeing a message will be shared to everyone within a connected graph. The protocol is designed so sharing is limited to friends and friends of friends. So if I contact you, I will share my messages and my friends' messages, but I wouldn't automatically share messages from friends of my friends unless they're also your friends. That keeps the total message volume reasonable, but it also restricts the reach of any given message.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 7, 2026 19:37 UTC (Tue) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (1 responses)

> The idea of "six degrees of separation" was originally from a work of fiction, but it has been studied extensively by people interested in networks and networking, and it seems to work fairly well. Even the estimate of six seems to be good, though with the limitation you mentioned of possible disconnected subgraphs.

Like most (borderline) autistic people I wouldn't say I have that many friends, but even I can say I have a lot of connections to very well-connected people. My mother was a good friend to Mrs Currie (not Edwina, Edwina's sister-in-law).

My Russian teacher had several friends who were senior figures in the Duma (Russian parliament).

One of my school-friends spent many years in Bahrain hob-nobbing with a lot of senior middle eastern government people (and her husband is now a very senior figure in the Church).

That's three different direct connections, that lead to major world figures via only one or two more connections. Am I really that different from anyone else? Six degrees to get to anyone feels about right.

Cheers,
Wol

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 10:22 UTC (Wed) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

We used to visit friends of my parents on Christmas day, who were neighbours of Bono and acquainted with him as neighbours. So... that puts me at about 3 degrees of separation from a set of the best connected people in the world (major political and religious leaders, etc.).

I'm not boasting, because the same will be true of pretty much everyone else. Indeed, most people are probably *better* connected than I am (as you are!). ;)

This is just a feature of "small world" networks, where a small set of the nodes in the network are incredibly well connected, and a significant number of their connections are to further, secondary, very well connected nodes. And thus, through these inner layers of highly connected nodes, the entire network is well connected and so the diameter of the network (the maximum of all shortest-paths in the network) is very low, and remains low and barely changes even as the network increases in size (cause new nodes end up "preferentially attached" to 1 or 2 of the highly connected nodes).

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 7, 2026 23:06 UTC (Tue) by Nahor (subscriber, #51583) [Link] (21 responses)

> Six degrees of separation is an idea from a work of fiction

It started as a fiction but that doesn't mean it's not real:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation#R...

> for it to be relevant requires you to assume that there are no disconnected subgraphs within Scuttlebutt. That is a rather strong assumption to make

That's the whole point of "6 degrees of separation"! Social networks tend to be way more connected than one expects! To be disconnected, you need people starting to use Scuttlebutt even though they don't have any friends who would listen yet, which completely defeats the purpose of the tool! Of course, there will be some (the tool author for starter, or because a group of people decided to use it together), but that's not likely to be the majority. Social tools tend to grow because people know someone who uses it already ("network effect").

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 8:09 UTC (Wed) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (20 responses)

For a message to be guaranteed to reach the whole network, it has to reach at least one person in each of all the disconnected subgraphs of the network.

It can reach a lot of the network very quickly, thanks to the logarithmic scaling effect, but as long as there are disconnected subgraphs, it can't be guaranteed to reach the entire network.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 10:27 UTC (Wed) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (9 responses)

> as long as there are disconnected subgraphs

There are basically no disconnected subgraphs, in the social graphs of humans in the world. In terms of Scuttlebutt, the people who use it will have an interest in connecting to others at at least some point.

We can argue about the drivers underlying the social dynamics and the degree of downstream effects, but it is well established now that humans establish well-connected, "small world" networks of social connections, and many other networks that wholly or partially mirror those dynamics have the same property.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 10:34 UTC (Wed) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (6 responses)

That would be surprising - other social networks do have disconnected subgraphs that don't communicate outside the subgroup. And note that "basically no disconnected subgraphs" is not enough for a message to get everywhere - you need a hard guarantee of no disconnected subgraphs to get a message everywhere, rather than "basically everywhere".

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 11:15 UTC (Wed) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (3 responses)

> you need a hard guarantee of no disconnected subgraphs to get a message everywhere, rather than "basically everywhere".

Does it really matter? Any attempt to get a message everywhere will result in the majority of people binning it as spam.

And if you define a "message" as what the original poster means (as opposed to the "writing", whatever that is) then disconnected subgraphs are both inevitable and very common. If it's not written in (a variant of) the Latin Alphabet, my computer probably won't display it. If it's in the single largest language group (Romance) that uses the Latin Alphabet I won't be able to understand it. If it's in Cyrillic, I can probably read but not understand it ... Anything else to me is meaningless junk.

The mere act of trying to communicate restricts your message to the subgroup capable of receiving and understanding that message. So getting it everywhere is just not possible.

Cheers,
Wol

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 12:45 UTC (Wed) by daroc (editor, #160859) [Link] (2 responses)

Regardless of the network topology, my point was more that Scuttlebutt doesn't support deliberately propagating messages to the entire network at the protocol level. Intermediate nodes only get copies of messages from friends and friends-of-friends, so even if the network has no disconnected subcomponents, any given message will only make it to a local region with diameter two.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 14:03 UTC (Wed) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (1 responses)

> any given message will only make it to a local region with diameter two.

Which may still be most of, perhaps all of, the network, for small-world networks - even large, global ones.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 14:47 UTC (Wed) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link]

You wouldn't expect it to be most/all of the network for a large network - the point of small-world networks is that growth is very rapid.

As a rough approximation for human scale small-world networks, you'd expect each person to add about 100 unique contacts. With a diameter of two, that's 10,000 contacts - nowhere near the scale of a large network.

The thing that small-world networks reminds us is that a diameter of 4 is not 20,000 contacts, but instead 100 million contacts.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 12:49 UTC (Wed) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (1 responses)

> other social networks do have disconnected subgraphs that don't communicate outside the subgroup.

Perhaps. But then these are just separate, distinct graphs/networks.

It is uninteresting to worry about how a communication protocol should make two networks that can/will never communicate communicate.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 14:57 UTC (Wed) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link]

It is deeply interesting if you want "global" moderation - if there's no current connection between two subgraphs of the network, then by definition, you can't have moderation that applies to both groups at once, because there is no way for the moderation decisions to spread globally.

That, in turn, means that you can't share a global denylist of "bad" content - e.g. CSAM hashes - because there is no way to inject a denylist entry into one subgraph and have it appear in the other.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 19:21 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (1 responses)

> There are basically no disconnected subgraphs, in the social graphs of humans in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sentinel_Island

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 9, 2026 9:44 UTC (Thu) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

I had them in mind writing that, cause /even/ the Sentinele islanders have had contact with others.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 18:27 UTC (Wed) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75) [Link] (9 responses)

The point, though, is that Scutttlebut doesn't even guarantee that a message will reach everyone within the connected graph it started from, much less have any way of going to a disconnected subgraph. By default, messages only go 2 hops, which isn't enough to travel all the way through a network even if the "6 degrees" heuristic holds. This is by design. It's a distributed system, so having every user keep a copy of every message, even ones they don't care about and will never read, would be impractical. Instead, users only keep the messages they're most likely to care about, and they don't pass on messages the recipient isn't likely to care about.

This makes the kind of moderation you discuss elsewhere impossible to implement without changing the protocol. There's no way of guaranteeing moderation messages get transmitted to everyone, even to just those people within a connected graph. There's also no central authority, so there's no agreement on who should be doing the moderation. A group of people can get together and agree to honor each other's block lists, but there's no way for them to enforce their judgment with anyone who doesn't accept their decisions.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 19:41 UTC (Wed) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (4 responses)

> The point, though, is that Scutttlebut doesn't even guarantee that a message will reach everyone within the connected graph it started from, much less have any way of going to a disconnected subgraph. By default, messages only go 2 hops, which isn't enough to travel all the way through a network even if the "6 degrees" heuristic holds.

So if the furthest it goes is "a friend of a friend", then to a considerable extent why would you even need a block list? Your direct connections, you have chosen as people you *want* to follow, and if they follow a load of people you don't like, chances are you'll re-consider your decision to follow them!

At a distance of 2, you're unlikely to find many people you actively don't like. I've had the experience of not liking my friends' friends, but it's always been "you seem a nice enough bloke, but there's something about you that sets me off - it's me that's at fault, not you". Some people, you just can't help taking an irrational dislike to :-(

Cheers,
Wol

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 21:01 UTC (Wed) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75) [Link] (3 responses)

So if the furthest it goes is "a friend of a friend", then to a considerable extent why would you even need a block list? Your direct connections, you have chosen as people you *want* to follow, and if they follow a load of people you don't like, chances are you'll re-consider your decision to follow them!

It only takes one really bad poster to mess up your feed. I think we've all encountered the friend of a friend who we wish we could block. Maybe they're just incredibly verbose and you don't want to wade through all their stuff, or maybe they post about some topic- religion, politics, their latest obsession- you are trying to avoid. Maybe they just love reposting stuff that's already been thoroughly debunked. It's still probably better to block them than to unfriend the friend they're linked to us through.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 22:37 UTC (Wed) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (2 responses)

> It only takes one really bad poster to mess up your feed. I think we've all encountered the friend of a friend who we wish we could block.

Yep. But how common is that? A lot of people won't need/want a blocklist because they don't have someone like that. And while some do, you really *don't* want it to propagate - unless you want to upset your friend, of course.

So yes, you want the *option* of a local blocklist, but most people won't want one, and most of them won't want it to propagate.

Cheers,
Wol

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 9, 2026 15:54 UTC (Thu) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75) [Link] (1 responses)

Yep. But how common is that?

It doesn't have to be that common to want to account for it in your protocol. I agree that there are social problems with sharing a block list if you're only looking people nearby in your social network- you could offend people if your feed includes only your friends and their friends- but the wider you cast your net the more need there is to filter your feed and the less worried you'll be about offending the people at the edges of your network. That's more or less the situation with centrally managed social media. I don't know if it's exactly common for groups to maintain a shared block list, but it's certainly done.

What do you block in a gossip network?

Posted Apr 9, 2026 16:18 UTC (Thu) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link]

For gossip protocols, there's also the problem of who you relay for; if you're an itinerant sailor, travelling around the world, you can't relay for someone who's going to get you into legal trouble locally, even if they're behaving legally where they live (e.g. if you travel to an area with strict "morality" laws, such that someone's personal photos are illegal for showing too much skin, or if someone is a rabid atheist who criticises religious figures, and you're travelling to somewhere where criticising religion is illegal).

You can thus end up in a situation where your blocks are locale-dependent - if you're in an area with strict laws, you want to block your friend whose content will definitely get you into trouble, and you don't want to relay for someone you don't directly know (friend of friend) whose content might get you into trouble, but when you're in a more legally relaxed area, you're willing to relay for all friends of friends, and unblock your high-risk friend.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 21:41 UTC (Wed) by intelfx (subscriber, #130118) [Link]

> A group of people can get together and agree to honor each other's block lists, but there's no way for them to enforce their judgment with anyone who doesn't accept their decisions.

Well, that sounds like a good thing, no? Why would I want anyone to be able to enforce their judgment on me without my consent?

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 9, 2026 9:17 UTC (Thu) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (2 responses)

Indeed - at 2 hops, given normal human social behaviour, you're going to reach about 10,000 people.

There could be a protocol change that would give "moderation" decisions a much wider reach - the 2 hop limit is sensible, but arbitrary - but I don't see any benefit from that, since you're never going to get global moderation (with the ability to identify malicious subgraphs that are aiming to go under the radar until they launch an abuse attack) in Scuttlebutt.

Moderation is, though, in general a hard thing; the simple cases are dealt with by graph pruning (if either side blocks the other, then prune the node that blocked or is blocked from the graph you're considering), but things like "viral bad" content, where you don't want to block a person, but you don't want to see (e.g.) anybody sharing news photographs of your family being killed get challenging to handle well.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 9, 2026 17:26 UTC (Thu) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75) [Link] (1 responses)

I think the biggest problem is that there is no technical difference between moderation and censorship. If you design a system so it can be used to suppress some types of bad content, those same tools can be used to suppress any other type of content. Even the threat of having one's posts suppressed can have a chilling effect. I don't want to make claims about slippery slopes- the threat of moderation is often the only thing that keeps online forums from turning into a sewer- but I can understand why someone would see tools for centralized moderation as a big enough danger to deliberately avoid including them.

A very interesting side of this is that restricting the reach of comments also makes something like Scuttlebutt difficult to surveil. There simply isn't some kind of global state that anyone can easily look at to see everything that's happening. Someone who wants to see everything will either need to infiltrate many different social circles or intercept messages. That's not to say a powerful nation state that really wanted to couldn't infiltrate well enough to see what's going on, but it would definitely be a lot harder than with a standard social media format where there's a central store that contains everything.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 10, 2026 14:22 UTC (Fri) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link]

The biggest difficulty is that there is no technical difference between disinterest, moderation and censorship in a gossip protocol like Scuttlebutt. Instead, the differences are about user intention and scale.
  1. I can block you because I don't like your content. As a consequence, I do not relay for you, and your feed does not spread as easily.
  2. I can block you because a moderation decision tells me to, and I choose to obey that moderation decision. As a consequence, I do not relay for you, and your feed does not spread as easily.
  3. I can block you because I am forced to do so (by some power I cannot easily overcome - court order, gangsters threatening my family, whatever). As a consequence, I do not relay for you, and your feed does not spread as easily.

In all three cases, the technical aspect is that, having blocked you, I refuse to relay for you, and as a consequence of my block, your feed does not spread as far. But the social context of the three reasons for blocking makes them qualitatively different.

In the first case, it's a personal decision - if lots of people make the same decision, then your content isn't seen by many people, but we're each coming to that decision independently, and you're just unpopular.

In the second case, it's getting a bit more blurred - I may disagree with this specific moderation decision if I consider it in detail, but I'm following it because I follow all moderation decisions from that source (e.g. because they're normally ones I agree with). That, however, implies that the entity making the moderation decisions has delegated power - if they target one class of views, or one individual, for suppression, but most of their decisions were good, then even spot-checking their decisions may well not reveal to me that I'm also suppressing content I agree with. However, if I do notice an error, I can (at least in theory) undo it by unblocking you.

And in the third case, we've definitely crossed the line into censorship; it's entirely possible that I want to spread your content, but I can't because I'm being forced to block you.

I'd also suspect that it's a lot easier to surveil than you imply; small world networks have the properties they have because they have nodes that have a lot of unique neighbours (as well as nodes whose neighbours are all neighbours themselves). If you can identify the nodes that link a lot of neighbourhoods together, it's not hard to surveil most of the network - the last fraction may be very hard to reach, but you probably don't care about that.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 9:53 UTC (Wed) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (5 responses)

> Six degrees of separation is an idea from a work of fiction

It isn't. It's been proven in the real-world in a variety of ways (least, in the sense of "small world" networks), for whatevevr low value of X, which barely scales up even with large changes in scale of network size for "small-world" networks. Including physically, where random people in the USA were asked to "send" a letter to a person, by (in person) giving it to the next person they thought best placed to get the letter closer to its addressee (iirc, an academic in NY, USA). The average path length of the ultimately successful deliveries was 5½. That was an experiment by Millgram btw. There are many others.

Additionally, many other kinds of networks, including the Internet, have the small-world property.

Flooding protocols are remarkably resilient, and only fail if there truly is no path (within what ever constraints are in place, e.g. timeouts whatever). Even random walk protocols are pretty successful on small-world networks, and can be resilient if there is a mechanism to repeat them (slower, but use less instantaneous bandwidth).

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 10:22 UTC (Wed) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (4 responses)

It literally is - the idea comes from Frigyes Karinthy's 1929 short story "Láncszemek", in which he aimed to illustrate how the chain between two people in a big population is actually quite short, because the expected length of the chain is proportional not to population size, but to the logarithm of population size.

This got taken up later by Gurevitch, and then by Milgram. But the core assumption behind "can get everywhere" in a small-world network (Milgram's term for Karinthy's idea) is that the network has no disconnected subgraphs - the moment there's a subgraph not connected to the rest of the network, you can't get everywhere.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 12:47 UTC (Wed) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (3 responses)

> the idea comes from Frigyes Karinthy's 1929 short story "Láncszemek"

Right, badly worded. Didn't mean to deny it was from a work of fiction - and I didn't know about that story, thanks. I meant, it isn't fiction, it is true.

> But the core assumption behind "can get everywhere" in a small-world network (Milgram's term for Karinthy's idea) is that the network has no disconnected subgraphs - the moment there's a subgraph not connected to the rest of the network, you can't get everywhere.

That's a trivial truth though. If a subgraph is always disconnected, then to all intents and purposes of communication within any sub-graph, these are just utterly separate graphs. There is no communication protocol that can make two networks that are forever separated from each other communicate.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 15:15 UTC (Wed) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (2 responses)

It's very much not a trivial truth - your "trivial truth" restates as "on the assumption that there are no disconnected subsets, it is possible to spread a statement globally through the entire network" - but that rephrases as "if you can spread a statement globally, then it is possible to spread a statement globally". But if you assume that the network is fully connected, then it's a tautology that the network is fully connected…

And most interesting social graphs do have disconnected subsets - indeed, for the purposes of moderation, they are deeply interesting because they fall into two categories:

  1. Relatively harmless "cult" subgroups - where the group has made a conscious decision to not associate outside the group. These are fun for anthropologists, but not interesting for moderation.
  2. Groups that are not actually disconnected from the main graph, but where the connection takes place outside the network. These are deeply interesting for moderation, because the apparently separate subgraph is, in fact, where people engaged in bad faith activity (including illegal activities) test whether the network's moderation is capable of proactively removing their content or not.

And that second group is where global moderation is interesting - if I'm deliberately engaged in unsavoury actions that the network would want to ban, identifying these subgraphs, watching their actions, and then proactively moderating their activities on the "main" subgraph is deeply useful.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 16:22 UTC (Wed) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (1 responses)

> most interesting social graphs do have disconnected subsets

I mean, yes, the reason they are disconnected from the rest could very well be very interesting and there may be many insights to glean from investigating that. Just... for purely for the purpose of a communication protocol, it is not interesting - if there is no path to communicate over, and never will be, it as good as doesn't exist, as far as the communication protocol is concerned.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 8, 2026 16:34 UTC (Wed) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link]

The thing is that the second reason - where there is a connection, it's just outside the communication protocol - is deeply interesting for the purposes of moderation. If you're going to do global moderation, you need some way to ensure that once content has been moderated and deemed "not OK" in one subgraph, it will be deemed "not OK" in all subgraphs.

Further, once you've identified a subgraph that is disconnected, that's a subgraph worth watching for the purposes of global moderation - it might be just a "cult" setup, where the group does not communicate with outsiders, but if it's a group that's trying to work out what offensive or illegal content they can get past moderation, proactively moderating content from that group in your global moderation scheme is worthwhile - precisely because there is a connection outside the communication protocol down which this content can flow late, if not already moderated out of the system.

Whole network messages

Posted Apr 7, 2026 22:26 UTC (Tue) by Heretic_Blacksheep (subscriber, #169992) [Link]

I originally thought similar in that 2 degrees of separation can, at least in theory, be a lot of people (but still a FAR! remove from 6 degrees). However, the user is ultimately in control of how large that linkage pool grows. On top of that, the actual network is not necessarily the Internet. It can be the Internet, but even if it is, it's limited to those that have been in direct contact with someone on their list or a central room that contains such messages. But because it doesn't have to use the Internet at all, example LoRa are effectively local-only radio networks same with ad-hoc WIFI and many line-of-sight packet radio networks. It's effectively impossible to get access to all possible networks, and even if you could, there's no guarantee anyone on your contact list has passed through and left messages to be picked up from other participants.

The whole idea is designed around decentralized, ephemeral, ad-hoc intermittent networks that synchronize on the fly that doesn't necessarily require any form of network exclusivity. You can get away with things like milliwatt transmitters that can only be picked up within a couple of feet as people pass each other on the street but would only transfer data if the two points know each other or someone in the close knit group. To anyone listening it could be just another unlicensed (900 MHz, 2.4 GHz, 5 GHz, etc) spectrum user. Noise. Likewise, with wanderers there are already established frequencies and networks for packet message exchange. There are various coverage maps for LoRa, APRS, and other generic or specific packet protocol network activity. Their very spottiness is what favors gossip-protocol like systems.

Is it still alive?

Posted Apr 7, 2026 19:04 UTC (Tue) by cniekel (subscriber, #80872) [Link] (3 responses)

It sounds lovely, but the latest release of patchwork is from 2021, patchbay from 2019, manyverse from 2024. Is it so stable, or has it been abandoned?

The introduction video was well done, gave a good overview of the features.

Is it still alive?

Posted Apr 8, 2026 1:46 UTC (Wed) by JesseW (subscriber, #41816) [Link] (2 responses)

It looks like there's a newer fork of patchwork, poncho-wonky, that is being worked on currently:

https://andregarzia.com/2026/01/three-months-of-poncho-wo...

(found via https://opencollective.com/secure-scuttlebutt-consortium/... )

Manyverse's main developer quit due to change in life interests back in 2024, so that's why it stopped.

Is it still alive?

Posted Apr 8, 2026 19:25 UTC (Wed) by cniekel (subscriber, #80872) [Link] (1 responses)

Thanks! I'll give that a try!

Is it still alive?

Posted Apr 9, 2026 9:43 UTC (Thu) by cniekel (subscriber, #80872) [Link]

I managed to get it working. I missed that there's also www.tildefriends.net, which is also a client. Seems to connect a little smoother.

Just what we need?

Posted Apr 8, 2026 12:55 UTC (Wed) by ms (subscriber, #41272) [Link]

This seems to be along the lines of what we, as a species, need and can cope with. We never evolved to cope with the ability to communicate to huge numbers of people all over the world instantly. Tribes with charismatic yet insane leaders would lead that tribe to ruin and not be able to reach half the human population of the world in under a second. Perhaps the dangers of large reach afforded to journalists explains a little of the hallowed and revered status they held for a lot of the last century.

Naïve thinking perhaps, but I wonder if the slower and more limited communication that Scuttlebutt seems (at first glance) to offer, is much safer for us and more beneficial to our future.


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