Confused

Posted Oct 27, 2025 18:50 UTC (Mon) by mikapfl (subscriber, #84646)
In reply to: Confused by clugstj
Parent article: Python Software Foundation withdraws security-related grant proposal

Nobody said that
> "diversity, equality, and inclusion" programs would address "structural vulnerabilities in Python and PyPl"

Instead, the PSF says that promoting "diversity, equality, and inclusion" are part of their mission, as well as making Python and PyPI safe. People, and organizations, can have more than one aim at the same time.

to post comments

Confused

Posted Oct 27, 2025 19:32 UTC (Mon) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (4 responses)

Precisely.

Much as I hate all this "inclusivity" crap, I read far too many stories of programming involving cliques, some people actively driving others away, Public School initiation-rite-type behaviour (that's UK Public Schools, not US public schools - completely opposite meaning).

I'd much rather have what I call "positive anti-discrimination", but that's not that much different from "diversity, equality and inclusion". Probably just a different emphasis but targetting the same end (and probably with a slightly different outcome, but not much).

We NEED anti-discrimination programs, so to have grant conditions that forbid that sort of behaviour ...

Cheers,
Wol

Confused

Posted Oct 28, 2025 3:30 UTC (Tue) by ktkaffee (subscriber, #112877) [Link] (3 responses)

I don't get how you can say all that, that I agree with, but say that you hate "inclusivity crap"?

Confused

Posted Oct 28, 2025 12:06 UTC (Tue) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (2 responses)

> I don't get how you can say all that, that I agree with, but say that you hate "inclusivity crap"?

Easy. I'm not American!

Rightly or wrongly, all this comes over as the Americans dealing with a (pretty much) uniquely American problem.

And when it's exported over here, it's making matters WORSE, not better.

I believe in meritocracy. I'm all for changing recruitment so that it filters for the best candidates. Etc etc.

I've been on the wrong end of "minority entitlement" ...

But when I'm watching English Politics become more and more fascist and racist, it alienates me more and more, and makes me more and more glad I don't identify as English. The Caribbean community are wonderful and are always happy when I identify as Jamaican, despite being completely the wrong colour ... and my flag is the blue-and-while saltire, not the red cross on white.

Cheers,
Wol

Confused

Posted Oct 28, 2025 18:20 UTC (Tue) by NYKevin (subscriber, #129325) [Link] (1 responses)

> Rightly or wrongly, all this comes over as the Americans dealing with a (pretty much) uniquely American problem.

I have cited this survey before, and I will do so again. Over 80% of Italians had a negative view of the Romani (or Roma) people in 2019,[1] and several other countries were not far behind that mark. I was also able to find numerous older reports about many different kinds of anti-Romani discrimination practiced throughout Europe, with [2] being a representative example from 2011. To be fair, things appear to be somewhat better in Western Europe, and the situation may have improved (or worsened) since 2019. But we can't just ignore half the continent, and 2019 is still quite recent in the grand scope of things. It is politically expedient to dismiss systemic racism and discrimination as "uniquely American problem[s]," but I am not convinced that this is anything other than a means of avoiding your (Europe's) own issues.

(I'm well aware that England would like to think of the UK and/or British Isles as an island chain in the Atlantic ocean, and not in any way a part of Europe. But NI is a de facto part of Europe whether England likes it or not, at least given the current Brexit deal, and England has its own problems as you describe.)

I would also like to preemptively clarify that I am not in any way accusing *you personally* of trying to avoid the issue. After all, you do say "rightly or wrongly," which can hardly be read as endorsement, and the rest of your comment makes your position clear enough. The "you" in the above comment is "you, Europeans and Brits-who-don't-call-themselves-Europeans, collectively."

[1]: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/10/14/minority-gr...
[2]: https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/eur01/005/2011/en/

Confused

Posted Oct 29, 2025 12:19 UTC (Wed) by rbranco (subscriber, #129813) [Link]

> I have cited this survey before, and I will do so again. Over 80% of Italians had a negative view of the Romani (or Roma) people in 2019,[1] and several other countries were not far behind that mark. I was also able to find numerous older reports about many different kinds of anti-Romani discrimination practiced throughout Europe

The way this is exploited by both sides for cheap political points is mostly American though, and we don't want that CRT crap here.