What does it mean by removing X11 support? [LWN.net]

What does it mean by removing X11 support?

Posted Jun 11, 2025 5:00 UTC (Wed) by MKesper (subscriber, #38539)
In reply to: What does it mean by removing X11 support? by atai
Parent article: Ubuntu 25.10 to drop support for GNOME on Xorg

Sure. It's a problem for people where graphics card or some exotic hardware are not supported. They still can change to Debian.

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What does it mean by removing X11 support?

Posted Jun 11, 2025 5:57 UTC (Wed) by LtWorf (subscriber, #124958) [Link] (7 responses)

My exotic hardware: "thinkpad t15 gen2". I am clearly the only person in the world to have a touchpad or a thinkpad.

What does it mean by removing X11 support?

Posted Jun 13, 2025 13:17 UTC (Fri) by mgedmin (guest, #34497) [Link] (6 responses)

As a long time ThinkPad user I'm surprised to hear claims that Wayland doesn't work on my hardware.

What does it mean by removing X11 support?

Posted Jun 13, 2025 13:39 UTC (Fri) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] (4 responses)

> As a long time ThinkPad user I'm surprised to hear claims that Wayland doesn't work on my hardware.

I don't mean to dismiss LtWorf's problem, but this is yet another example of hardware vendors not caring about anything other than Windows. That said, I've dealt with plenty of laptops over the years whose touchpad was nigh-unsuable (if not completely so) under Windows without the OEM driver; it wasn't Windows' fault for not magically handling those touchpads without the vendor driver, nor is its libinput's fault for not magically handling LtWorf's.

(And from the description and the bug ticket, it does seem like said touchpad "working" under xorg's old synaptics driver was more accidental than anything else, due to bugs canceling each other out)

(Disclaimer -- I'm typing this using a ThinkPad T495 running GNOME/Wayland)

What does it mean by removing X11 support?

Posted Jun 13, 2025 14:40 UTC (Fri) by zdzichu (subscriber, #17118) [Link] (2 responses)

Actually, Lenovo was supposed to cooperate with Fedora to make their hardware working well. And Fedora being Fedora mean it should be supported by upstream, no weird patches nor custom drivers.

That's the theory, though. Shortly after above huge announcement, Lenovo released ARM Thinkpad without Fedora support whatsoever.

What does it mean by removing X11 support?

Posted Jun 13, 2025 14:57 UTC (Fri) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] (1 responses)

> Lenovo was supposed to cooperate with Fedora to make their hardware working well.

That's an aspirational statement, and it only applies to "select models" that were to be *shipped with Fedora preinstalled*.

If you buy one of those supposedly supported models with Windows and install Fedora yourself (eg because Lenovo doesn't offer Linux as an option in your region), Lenovo will refuse to support you. (Ask me how I know)

> And Fedora being Fedora mean it should be supported by upstream, no weird patches nor custom drivers.

This means that Fedora only ships what upstream provides. It doesn't mean they're on the hook to preemptively figure out every quirk of the dozens (of not hundreds) that Lenovo releases every year.

> That's the theory, though. Shortly after above huge announcement, Lenovo released ARM Thinkpad without Fedora support whatsoever.

The overwhelming majority Lenovo's lineup remains Windows-only.

What does it mean by removing X11 support?

Posted Jun 13, 2025 16:34 UTC (Fri) by zdzichu (subscriber, #17118) [Link]

I meant Lenovo should be on the hook to provide any necessary quirks, Fedora devs may provide guidance how to integrate them. Or even Lenovo should fix the hardware based on input from Fedora developers.

I'm sorry about your experience with Lenovo's support. But I'm not surprised.

What does it mean by removing X11 support?

Posted Jun 13, 2025 16:02 UTC (Fri) by LtWorf (subscriber, #124958) [Link]

It works fine on linux too, just not if one uses libinput.

What does it mean by removing X11 support?

Posted Jun 13, 2025 16:01 UTC (Fri) by LtWorf (subscriber, #124958) [Link]

Thinkpads only share the brand name. 2 different models will have completely different hardware.

The fact that something might work well on one model doesn't necessarily mean it will work well on all black computers that are covered in rubber and have a red LED on the outside.

Wayland works, it's libinput that doesn't like the touchpad on my model. Unfortunately Xorg supports multiple drivers while wayland only supports libinput, so that blocks me from using wayland entirely.

I hope it's clearer now.