LWN: Comments on "Tiemann: Open Source Incentives"

Tiemann: Open Source Incentives

pboddie — 2009-07-06T13:46:21+00:00

Is the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation a charity?

It's like finding out that the services of Robin Hood can only be booked through the Sheriff of Nottingham's office of taxation. Expect the fawning media to focus on the hand doing the giving, not the one doing the taking.

You misunderstand...

shmget — 2009-07-05T18:28:14+00:00

"Basically consider this "charity" part of PR department of Microsoft and all will be good."

Then that 'charity' should not be tax-exempt.

You misunderstand...

johill — 2009-07-05T02:03:53+00:00

Actually, are you sure? The actual text of the FCPA seems to imply that the "gift" needs to go to a foreign official, a foreign political party or party official, or any candidate for foreign political office (from the lay-person's guide, cf. §78dd-2(a)(1,2,3)) which would not seem to conver "gifts" to the entire country's schooling system or whatever.

You misunderstand...

rahvin — 2009-07-05T01:15:28+00:00

Maybe you misunderstand. The FCPA makes providing "gifts" to foreign governments for the purpose of securing sales illegal. It also makes putting conditions on gifts illegal if those conditions require the purchase or use of US products. The FCPA was passed to stop the commercial interference in foreign governments that caused endless problems for US foreign policy and harmed people.

Tiemann: Open Source Incentives

njs — 2009-07-04T22:20:11+00:00

Oh, I agree about the moral aspect. I'm just uncomfortable saying that if X is morally questionable, then a large organization must not be doing X. Hopefully the B&MGF does keeps itself removed from Microsoft's concerns, and my impression has been that the B&MGF is not just(?) a tool for publicity by other means. But I'd rather see the accusations raised here addressed with evidence than panglossian optimism.

You misunderstand...

khim — 2009-07-04T18:09:56+00:00

You certainly can not give any official money. But you can add stipulations to your gift if you are charity! And if these stipulations help your company... why it's a big deal? Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation always worked this way - I don't see anything surprising there...

Basically consider this "charity" part of PR department of Microsoft and all will be good.

Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA)

dwheeler — 2009-07-04T15:52:16+00:00

I hope that this story about the B&MG Foundation is untrue; certainly people should track down the claim. I suspect the claimed actions would be illegal under the the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA). According to Wikipedia,the FCPA makes it unlawful for a U.S. person "to make a payment to a foreign official for the purpose of obtaining or retaining business for or with, or directing business to, any person... The meaning of foreign official is broad... Doctors at government-owned or managed hospitals are also considered to be foreign officials under the FCPA, as is anyone working for a government-owned or managed institution or enterprise... The government focuses on the intent of the bribery rather than on the amount."

Tiemann: Open Source Incentives

stijn — 2009-07-04T15:09:05+00:00

There is the moral aspect as well as the legal aspect. A charitable foundation that tries to prop up a
business is morally bankrupt. Perhaps the foundation is not legally a charity if 'charity' happens to
be another legal concept, but that is not the point. I assumed that the text I quoted was a little
more than a legal statement.

Tiemann: Open Source Incentives

fdr — 2009-07-04T07:46:30+00:00

Ah, okay. The position is more nuanced than I first thought, I thought it was some sort of garble because the sound-(text?)bite version didn't seem to flow together very well.

Tiemann: Open Source Incentives

tzafrir — 2009-07-04T07:25:11+00:00

Now read the article and find where this is actually written. Hint: look for the word "competing").

The Malaysian government's behavior there is mentioned as a good example. The "competing solutions" are about some pointless development done by the Bush administration.

Tiemann: Open Source Incentives

jreiser — 2009-07-04T02:53:01+00:00

The mere existence of the U.S. Foreign Corrupt Practices Act is a clue that different rules may apply. The statute itself does not contain the string "lobby".

Tiemann: Open Source Incentives

njs — 2009-07-04T01:17:17+00:00

First, I'm not sure whether the US government gives a fig about a 501(c) trying to lobby *other* governments. Second, "lobbying" refers (as per that glossary) specifically to influencing legislation, and much of what happens in schools etc. is not specifically determined by legislation.

Tiemann: Open Source Incentives

zooko — 2009-07-03T20:11:23+00:00

http://zooko.com/log-2002-11.html#d2002-11-12-bmgf

"""
Is the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation a charity?
2002-11-12

Yesterday I was delighted to see that Bill Gates is donating $100 million U.S. to fight AIDS in India.
The fact that the donation came as part of a coordinated effort to dissuade the Indian government
from its plan to adopt Linux gave me some qualms, but I was still happy to see that much money
directed to fight the plague that threatens to cripple India.

Today I was extremely disappointed to learn that it wasn't Bill Gates who donated the money, nor
was it Microsoft, but it was the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. I had thought that the B&MG
Foundation was a charity ...
"""

Tiemann: Open Source Incentives

fdr — 2009-07-03T19:49:24+00:00

In at least some point in the history of this post:

"He also describes an effort by the Malaysian government to reward use of free software, rather than the development of it, because that can lead to multiple, competing solutions that don't necessarily solve the users' problems. In addition, he also noted a barrier to free software adoption"

Read this twice, especially this part: "...because that can lead to multiple, competing solutions that don't necessarily solve the users' problems."

Anyway, I get the intended meaning (I think, given that this is generally a pro-Free Software type of place), but it could as easily go the other way should it have been a Microsoft Press Release :)

Tiemann: Open Source Incentives

stijn — 2009-07-03T19:15:29+00:00

The alarming storyline, if true, would be quite astonishing. Searching for 'gates foundation' gave as second link http://www.gatesfoundation.org/grantseeker , stating in the glossary of terms under lobbying no less, Private foundations such as the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation are, by law, prohibited from lobbying. It would not surprise me, but it would border on stupid for the foundation to attempt this.