LWN: Comments on "The next chapter in the Merkey saga"

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

Lmerkey — 2010-08-17T03:37:08+00:00

OK I know this post is 5 years old, and I am in no way coming to my poor papa's defense, but it's a little hypocritical to mouth off about someone who has a severe case of BS syndrome without all the facts. Like for one neither me nor my father are Mormon he's claiming that he as a non-Mormon is being treated wrong not as a Mormon. And yes this is actually his youngest daughter correcting you, I just have issues with well when every I see something incorrect.

Images of the complaint and its exhibits

petrofsky — 2005-08-12T17:37:25+00:00

Oops. In the parent message, in reference to message 141017, I wrote "I actually posted it on June 23", but I meant June 22. Later, I gave the date again and got it right, but left a digit out of the message number: "14107" should have been "141017".

Images of the complaint and its exhibits

petrofsky — 2005-08-12T16:58:27+00:00

I'm posting this comment on August 12 as a reply to LWN.net comment 141017. That comment now says "Posted Jul 12, 2005 12:59 UTC (Tue) by guest petrofsky", but I actually posted it on June 23 at 14:53 -0600. What happened on July 12 was that the body of the comment was removed and replaced with "[This comment has been removed by the LWN editors, sorry]".

Below is the original content of the comment. The apparent reason for the editing of the comment is that it contained a link to http://scofacts.org/Merkey-Perens-1_1.pdf, which, at the time the comment was posted, returned a PDF file of the exhibits to Merkey's complaint, one of which was subsequently sealed by a court order later that day. However, the PDF file containing the exhibits was removed from that URL on the following day, June 23, long before the comment was edited on July 12.

For further details, see scofacts.org/merkey.html.

Original contents of message 14107, Posted Jun 22, 2005 20:53 UTC (Wed):

I can verify that this complaint was really filed. Here are images of the complaint and its exhibits that I obtained from the court's subscribers-only website. The second exhibit appears to be a 1998 confidential settlement of two lawsuits between Novell and Merkey. I wrote some thoughts about the complaint in messages 275549 and 275622 on Yahoo's SCOX message board. (The latter message references a complaint against Merkey that was filed in April.)

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

jhardin — 2005-07-02T03:27:14+00:00

> "HE should be placed in everyones .. kill file"
>
> Sure sounds like a death threat to me, and others,
> and I am certain it will sound like one to a jury.

Not to any jurors who have ever participated in Usenet, Yahoo Groups, etc., particularly when the material conveniently omitted by the ellipses is restored and the full quote is present. And not to any jurors regardless of their experience once the concept of a "kill file" in the context of computer messaging is explained.

Or (speculation here) do *you* have a file where you list the names of people you want to kill, and that is the only context in which you can mentally process the term "kill file"?

This is all very interesting and amusing in a perverse sort of way, but I have to go spend some time on something that's important - namely, writing my elected representatives about the Supreme Court's appalling eminent domain decision.

Ciao. CUl8r. 73's. etc.

History repeating itself?

vnj — 2005-07-02T02:03:36+00:00

Let's remember who we are dealing with. Read Judge Anthony W. Schofield's "Findings of Fact" in a case regarding Jeff Merkey:

In the 4th Judicial District Court, Utah County, State of Utah

Case Number: 970400339

DATED: January 30, 1998

Anthony W. Schofield, Judge

FINDINGS OF FACT

I find that the following facts have been proven by a preponderance of the evidence:

124. In fact, however, Merkey is not just prone to exaggeration, he also is and can be deceptive, not only to his adversaries, but also to his own partners, his business associates and to the court. He deliberately describes his own, separate reality.

131. While it is human nature for each of us to put our own spin on events which we observe...Merkey nonetheless regularly exaggerates or lies in his comments to others about events happening around him. It is as though he is creating his own separate reality.

135. Given his penchant for creating a separate reality and for deliberate misrepresentation, I find Merkey's claim ... unreliable. Rather, he wanted to have the benefit of both worlds -- his world actually working on a clustering model based upon the Novell architecture -- but also a world in which he could claim that he was not using or misappropriating Novell confidential technical information.

146. Merkey asserts that he did not fit in at Novell because he had a different ethnic or religious background than most of the Novell workers. This claim was not supported by any meaningful evidence.

[note: emphasis mine] Sound familiar? There is plenty more. And remember: this is a judge making these statements. I have no idea if Mr. Jeff Merkey's claims are true, but would you trust this guy?

You can find the original document here (for a fee) or read a copy at Gorklaw.

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

vnj — 2005-07-02T02:01:16+00:00

Let's remember who we are dealing with. Read Judge Anthony W. Schofield's "Findings of Fact" in a case regarding Jeff Merkey:

In the 4th Judicial District Court, Utah County, State of Utah

Case Number: 970400339

DATED: January 30, 1998

Anthony W. Schofield, Judge

FINDINGS OF FACT

I find that the following facts have been proven by a preponderance of the evidence:

[note: emphasis mine] Sound familiar? There is plenty more. And remember: this is a judge making these statements. I have no idea if Mr. Jeff Merkey's claims are true, but would you trust this guy?

You can find the original document here (for a fee) or read a copy at Gorklaw.

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

Kebron — 2005-07-01T23:26:49+00:00

Once again.... give us some URLs

merkey.net does not contain anything neither does pagansavage.com

Please give us some exact URLs so we can believe all that you are telling us.

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

jmerkey — 2005-07-01T22:54:00+00:00

Really? Go google "jeff merkey" and look at their google spam links claiming I am a stalker -- more libel, identity theft, and interference with my rights.

Jeff

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

Kebron — 2005-07-01T22:43:07+00:00

YOU said: "Merkey.net is continuing as are pagansavage, although they have removed a large portion of libel already."

Obviously they are not continuing... I guess you are the obtuse one... refusing to see what is right in front of your face.

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

jmerkey — 2005-07-01T22:36:56+00:00

Either you don't understand english or you are too obtuse to
undertstand what I said. Go back and read my post again.

Thanks

Jeff

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

Kebron — 2005-07-01T22:25:00+00:00

http://www.pagansavage.com/rant contains:

"403

forbidden

Sorry, the site will be down for a bit; however the usual downloads are still available. Have fun."

Obviously your facts are wrong at this time.

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

Kebron — 2005-07-01T22:20:52+00:00

http://forums.merkey.net/ only contains

"I am taking down the forums so that Jeff won't stalk our members."

Get your information straight. There are no quotes there.

As for the rest... give us EXACT URLs where we can find your so called quotes since your information seems not to be reliable Sir.

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

jmerkey — 2005-07-01T22:17:06+00:00

slashdot.org
groklaw.com
lwn.net
yahoo.com
merkey.net
pagansavage.com

and lots of others .....

Try using search. I have noticed that Yahoo legal has responded to my requests and removed all SCOX libelous content with the exeception of comments posted which are identified as evidence.

Slashdot (VA Software) legal already removed and archived the comments and death threats as requested as well.

Merkey.net is continuing as are pagansavage, although they have removed a large portion of libel already.

Jeff

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

Kebron — 2005-07-01T22:13:14+00:00

Once again... where do we find the EXACT quote your are giving Sir?

Give us a URL so we can see these quotes.

an important point

jmerkey — 2005-07-01T21:45:06+00:00

I appreciate your kind comments and advice. I can tell you that the US Attorney is aware of all of this and are monitoring the court filings and legal discovery. I do not know for certain, but I'd say there's a good chance anyone or any organizations or newsites who harbor or protect these people may be looking at jail time. This may include this one.

Jeff

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

jmerkey — 2005-07-01T21:41:33+00:00

I think all the guns you play with and fire have affected your reasoning.

"HE should be placed in everyones .. kill file"

Sure sounds like a death threat to me, and others, and I am certain it will sound like one to a jury.

Jeff

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

jmerkey — 2005-07-01T21:40:28+00:00

Fully logged with BATES numbers, downloaded, printed, and verified. Most of them have been up on websites for almost 6 months.

Most of the sites have started taking down the comments and are archiving them for discovery purposes. So you may not be able to find all of them anymore.

Great libel case.

Jeff

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

jhardin@impsec.org — 2005-07-01T20:30:25+00:00

> Bruce Perens;
> "HE should be in everyones ... kill file"

Again, this is not a death threat, cannot possibly be construed as a death threat by anyone with the extensive experience in computers you claim to have, and does not add credibility to your other claims.

Also, willfully changing the context of the comment through the ellipses doesn't help either.

> "Go and kiss Marl Dickbrydes ass some more."

> Linus Torvalds,
> "What did they [SCO] offer you ..."

In what possible way could those be construed as death threats?

And, as the other poster asked, where are the links to the original source material, if publicly available, so that we can see them in context and unedited?

Computer Scientists might not know what a kill file is...

jhardin@impsec.org — 2005-07-01T20:24:38+00:00

> One of these idiots posted on [sic] comment that my pregnant wife should be
> killed and cut open, and the unborn fetus pulled from her body and killed.

The vast majority of the Linux and OSS communities (including myself) does *not* endorse such behavior. The most likely situation is that someone who is "maturity challenged" posted the comment and was not serious; however this does not excuse the behavior or mitigate the effects the comment had on yourself and your wife. Proper law enforcement authorities should be notified so that whoever made such threats can be located and punished appropriately.

But lumping such threats along with Perens' comment that you should be plonked, and along with hyperbolic ranting that OSS contributes materially to worldwide terrorism, in a lawsuit seeking millions of dollars in damages against hundreds of John Doe defendants who called you names, is *not* a way to get your claims taken seriously by the community, or to convince the majority of the community that you are worthy of anything other than ridicule.

Jeff, I'll say it again: You are your own worst enemy. The world is *not* out to get you, and all of your public ranting about it is the equivalent of hanging a "kick me" sign on your own back. Are you truly surprised that there are people out there who will oblige you?

Computer Scientists might not know what a web page URL is...

jhardin@impsec.org — 2005-07-01T19:58:33+00:00

Mmm. Since when is believing that the Constitutional limitations on the powers of the Government should be obeyed considered "radical"?

I am most definitely *not* far-right-wing. I'd love to know what prompted you to make *that* judgement of my character - besides the gun pix, of course...

BTW, "jhardin@impsec.org" won't take you to my website. For that you need to use this: http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/

Here are some more educational materials for you, since you seen to have a rather loose grasp of this concept as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URL

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/U/URL.html

http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid...

an important point

vjv0vjv — 2005-07-01T18:41:19+00:00

It's important to note that it was *not* public knowledge at the time that you were married, much
less that your wife was pregnant. The logical conclusion here is that whoever posted that
disgusting threat is someone who knows you on a more personal level, otherwise they wouldn't
have known any of that stuff. For whatever reason, the perpetrator decided to try to terrorize
you, while trying to pin the blame on the Linux community. That would be really convenient for
the perpetrator, you have to admit. I couldn't begin to guess what sort of person would be
harboring a grudge like that. Could be connected to the Mooney situation, for all we know.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again particularly about that one comment: If you haven't
contacted law enforcement about it already, you'd be wise to do so. Slashdot comments from
15-year old geeks in Norway are one thing, but this is quite another. If there's any chance that
your family could be in real danger, you shouldn't try to handle this on your own, for their sake if
not yours. The person who posted that probably has your address, since it's appeared in various
places (court documents, whois listings, etc.). I'm not saying you need to move, but a home
security upgrade might be a good idea.

I think you'll find that despite all the heated arguing over things like the $50k kernel issue a few
months ago, the Linux community as a whole will regard all that as a "family squabble", and
people will stand by you and reject the few extreme nutcases who do horrible things like this.
People would probably even help you track them down, if it came to that.

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

Kebron — 2005-07-01T17:47:31+00:00

Very nice... do you have a link for each of those statements to identify the origin of each?

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

jmerkey — 2005-07-01T08:13:04+00:00

Several members of the Linux Community have submitted requests for disclosure of the evidence of death threats leveled by Linux and OSS members.

I am providing a limited disclosure of some of the comments which have been posted or emailed to internet websites or myself as examples of inappropriate comments and as a result of perens verbal attacks and those of Groklaw. This does not include the hundreds of comments posted on Groklaw. I am saving those for court ...:

Bruce Perens;
"HE should be in everyones ... kill file"

"Kill Him ..."

"We are going to firebomb your house ... "

"You are a crackhead and a f_cking assh_le and I hope someone does away with you."

"I hope you off yourself before you reproduce. That would be a major setback for the species if
you are allowed to reproduce."

"We are going to come to your house, kill your wife and cut her open, and kill your children"

"I hope someone firebombs your house SCO Stooge"

"Go and kiss Marl Dickbrydes ass some more."

Linus Torvalds,
"What did they [SCO] offer you ..."

"How about asphxiation then for a soltution to the Merkey problem"

"He smokes peyote and should be put out of his misery"

"A dying breed (we hope)"

"These "kill Merkey" comments do not help. Some clown like Dan Lyons at Forbes may very well use these comments to prove that Linux lovers over at slashdot really are a hateful violent crowd"

"In some circles, if you offer 50K for a thing worth many times more, you have a large chance to get killed due to lack of respect. Merkey must consider himself lucky [to have not been killed]"

These are examples of the thousands of pages of exhibits and comments posted to the internet as a result of perens and Groklaw stories and false allegations I work for SCO, am a spy for SCO and the Canopy Group.

I hope this evidence is enlightening to the interested Linux Community members.

Computer Scientists might not know what a kill file is...

jmerkey — 2005-07-01T07:21:46+00:00

This individual is a gun rights activist with a john birch style website. See -- all of these folks are far right wing radicals.

jhardin@impsec.org

Jeff

Computer Scientists might not know what a kill file is...

jmerkey — 2005-07-01T07:08:30+00:00

LWN was the source and starting point for all of this along with Perens and Jones and thier statements. The death threats were too much. One of these idiots posted on comment that my pregnant wife should be killed and cut open, and the unborn fetus pulled from her body and killed.

My wife was unable to sleep after seeing this comment. After she saw it, she fled the house with our newborn son and stayed in a hotel for several days in a state of panic and terror. This bullshit is going to stop -- or else.

We have had it and I have had it with idiots and sociopaths who for whatever reason have made libeling me one of their hobiies. LWN also took down some of perens comments and has spoilated evidence by doing so. I want the evidence put back up and left there or LWN may get added as a defendant.

I hope this clarifies my views for the Linux and OSS folks who harbor or support these cyber-terrorists.

Jeff V. Merkey

Computer Scientists might not know what a kill file is...

jhardin@impsec.org — 2005-06-29T22:58:16+00:00

> In any case, don't start badgering LWN like Groklaw and Slashdot.
> What purpose can that possibly have?

Feeding his own need for attention.

Computer Scientists might not know what a kill file is...

Ross — 2005-06-29T21:31:28+00:00

Jeff you're not helping your case if what you are really concerned with your
image in the Linux community. We know what Perens meant and I just don't
buy your interpretation. If there are examples of actual death threats,
that's another matter completely. I think you would find that we wouldn't
support anyone who does that. However your recent comments about how Groklaw
is hurting SCO by commenting on the court cases is just too much. If public
commentary hurts their case it wasn't strong enough to begin with. Court
cases are open to the public for a reason: public scrutiny. This is good
for most of the same reasons that government transparency is good.

In any case, don't start badgering LWN like Groklaw and Slashdot. What
purpose can that possibly have?

How's that bogus lawsuit working out for ya, toad licker?

yuk — 2005-06-29T21:18:15+00:00

You are a waste of perfectly good oxygen. Go away already.

signed, saltydogmn (signed in via bugmenot)

Computer Scientists might not know what a kill file is...

vjv0vjv — 2005-06-28T23:44:35+00:00

You said:

> It's gone a little far for that. Making death threats is going too far....

I absolutely agree. Making death threats would be going too far, if that's happened. If you've received any genuine, credible threats, you really ought to alert the authorities, rather than trying to handle this on your own. That's what they're there for, after all.

I understand you've been encountering skepticism over your reading of Mr. Perens' "killfile" comment. You've said you experienced emotional distress as a result, and I'm sure that's true. If someone of his prominence suggested that everyone put *me* in their killfiles, I know I'd find it distressing. Convincing a jury that counts as a death threat is another matter, and it may be a tough sell. Please note that I'm offering this strictly as advice, not as criticism.

If you do decide to go through with this civil case, and put the matter in front of a jury, of course you'll want to have the strongest case you can muster. In that spirit, you may not want to lead off with that Perens remark, if you've got any better material at your disposal. You've mentioned that you've received numerous threatening emails. You might want to review those and pick out a few that look like stronger "death threat" candidates than the Perens comment, in case the jury's not convinced by that one. Actually if you could provide some examples either here or on your website, that might go a very long way towards winning the public over to your side.

Computer Scientists might not know what a kill file is...

jmerkey — 2005-06-28T22:23:21+00:00

"Can't we all just get along"

It's gone a little far for that. Making death threats is going too far....

Jeff

Computer Scientists might not know what a kill file is...

vjv0vjv — 2005-06-28T21:07:49+00:00

So you're saying that calling someone a "SCO employee" is slander/libel? Ok. I'll agree that it's a serious insult. Further, I'll agree that there's no obvious evidence that you were ever directly employed by SCO, Caldera, or Canopy.

If anyone's really called you that, I think their suspicion of your motives is due to LKML posts like this one. Let's suppose that people are only heaping all this criticism on you strictly because they aren't clear about your motives, which makes them feel mistrustful. Let's further suppose this is all a big misunderstanding, which could easily be cleared up by just sitting down and talking it over calmly, without any lawsuits or unkind language.

Let's talk common sense for a moment. All heated rhetoric aside, in real life nobody actually wants to harm you or your family in any way. It's true that posters on Slashdot are known for their ill-considered hyperbole, and posters on Slashdot are also known for being pimply basement-dwelling 15 year olds with no social skills. Nothing they say is credible, and their opinions are of no value. They get bullied at high school, so they come home and act like bullies on the net. But they only have power over you if you let them. Playing their game and complaining about it just makes them do it more, and not even a federal judge can change that.

My advice to you is to forget about suing people, shrug it all off, and get on with life. If you just stop feeding them, they'll forget all about you and find something else to fixate on.

Can't we all just get along?

Computer Scientists might not know what a kill file is...

jmerkey — 2005-06-27T17:13:54+00:00

Say whatever you want -- it's going to trial and so is Mr. Perens. Deal with it.

Jeff

Computer Scientists might not know what a kill file is...

sitaram — 2005-06-27T13:10:20+00:00

merkey -- get a life and a clue. Bruce said "He belongs on every person's email kill file". By your incredibly deluded interpretation, this means that EVERY person maintains a file of people he would want to literally kill. This is so preposterous that no judge will buy it.

Why do you insist on monopolising the idiocy franchise?

Computer Scientists might not know what a kill file is...

jmerkey — 2005-06-27T05:49:29+00:00

Time to respond.

I know what a "kill file" is. The problem I have with Mr. Perens extremely big mouth is he stated that "I" should be placed in a kill file. Kill files are used to identify email servers and email addresses, not individuals. I also know LWN took down his statements "He works for SCO". Too bad -- I snapshotted and printed them -- and guess what -- there's a Federal Subpoena coming LWN's way this week -- surprise. Spoilate evidence and go to jail possibly, BTW.

By stating "Jeff should be placed in an email kill file" is a death threat, and many people assumed this was what he said (and I believe it's what he meant.) I started seeing comments advocating I be killed on slashdot and other websites as a result of this and it got really outraeous.

So all of you weird strange demented people who somehow think this is all OK are the ones who are nuts.

Have a nice Day.

Jeff

Computer Scientists might not know what a kill file is...

dps — 2005-06-26T00:47:19+00:00

Jeff Merkey's computer sceince credentials, even if they are genuine, might not mean much. My credentials are 3 (acreditted) degrees in the CS.

It would be plausable to be an expert in computer science and not know the meaning of "kill file". Some computer scientists use formal methods which are a specialised area of mathematics. There is formal methods jargon including dag, process calculus, variant, abstraction invariant and "the mean calculator".

You do not use computer programs to prove results about a parallel system composed of abny number of the stated components (defined in CSP) connected in any way whatsoever---that the overall system is acyclic is *not* one of the conditions. This, and the performance of an implementation on real parallel hardware, is what got me a PhD in computer science.

All of this is a long way from understanding the meaning of "kill file".

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

mrnice — 2005-06-25T07:02:37+00:00

And I want a tank with sharks with frikkin lasers. ("Mr Evil" in Austin Powers)

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

1LMan — 2005-06-25T04:51:16+00:00

Well, I read the complaing and I am thinking this won't fly. Just what damage did Mr. Merkey suffer? Seriously, he is claiming tortious interference with his business relationships and cannot list one?

An ex coder & 1L

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

jachim — 2005-06-25T04:02:48+00:00

Actually, at the time I was in the Electrical Engineering program and had not yet gotten my first computer to have a modem.

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

cgray4 — 2005-06-24T13:45:30+00:00

And you are representative of every computer scientist?

I was simply saying that being a computer scientist does not immediately imply that you know what a killfile is. I know quite a few eminent computer scientists (academics) who probably do not know what a killfile is.

On the other hand, I would think in this case that Merkey has been killfiled so many times that in this case he's at least being deliberately obtuse, so it doesn't really matter.

The next chapter in the Merkey saga

zjim — 2005-06-24T12:50:19+00:00

I myself am LDS (Mormon) and against SCO and people like Merkey who think that the way to make money is by making up false statements. I support Open Free Software because there should be choices. SCO will not win their case against IBM, Novell, Red Hat, AutoZone or Chrysler, because they are just grasping at straws. From what I see of Merkey he appears to be making a lot of noise and when he doesn't get his way then every one is out to get him. Hopefully all of these groups will countersue and win. I also agree for some one who's spent 20 years as a tech professional he doesn't know much about the lingo. I've spent 22 years and even I wouldn't figure people where out get kill me if they said I was going in their kill file.