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Fedora's trademark license agreement

By Jake Edge
September 1, 2009

While trademarks are often lumped together with copyrights and patents—under the poorly termed "intellectual property" umbrella—trademarks are quite different. One of those differences is that a trademark must be actively enforced, at least under US law, or the mark holder risks losing it. The Fedora community is currently discussing a license to allow community members to use the Fedora trademarks, while still protecting Red Hat's ability to defend the mark against those who would misuse it. But, requiring a signed license agreement in order for a community web site to use Fedora trademarks—on the site or in the domain name—seems heavy-handed to some.

Christoph Wickert brought up some concerns with the trademark license agreement (TLA) on the fedora-advisory-board mailing list. He was commenting on an earlier revision of the agreement, which has since been updated as a result of the conversation. One of the more controversial aspects of the agreement is that license termination requires that the domain registration be turned over to Red Hat:

The license to use the Licensor's Trademarks will cease immediately upon the termination or expiration of this Agreement. On termination or expiration of the License, the Licensee agrees that the ownership of the Domain Name(s) automatically transfers to Licensor and Licensee will take all steps necessary, including working with domain name registrars and registries as necessary, to ensure that the legal ownership and control of the Domain Name(s) is expeditiously transferred to Licensor or a party of its choosing. Licensee agrees to remove any Web Pages content immediately if in Licensor's sole discretion such removal is warranted.

The TLA allows either party to terminate the agreement "for any reason at any time upon thirty (30) days prior notice in writing to the other party" in section 3(a), or, in section 3(c), with no notice in the event of a legal claim against the site. Because of the domain transfer requirement, Wickert was concerned that it could lead to domain hijacking:

So even if the licensee follows all the terms of the TLA and the logo usage guidelines, Red Hat can terminate the agreement for (a) no reason and (c) even without notice at any time. If they do, they automatically become owner of the licensees domain. This is a legal way of hijacking the domain with all it's contents, all it's reputation and all the work that was put into it. This just isn't fair.

It should be noted that the TLA does not require that the contents of the website be handed over. Changes to the content may be required if the license is terminated in order to remove the trademarked items, but the contents would still be the property of the web site owner. Wickert's statement to that effect was simply a misunderstanding of the TLA.

Wickert also sees problems in the indemnification clause. By indemnifying Red Hat against various claims, without any kind of cap, he is worried that "a person could be bankrupt [for] the rest of his life even if he didn't damage Red Hat or Fedora in any way". In the end, he concludes that the TLA is not something he can recommend for others to sign, which is "a shame".

Fedora project leader Paul Frields responded at length to Wickert's concerns, noting:

But Red Hat isn't interested in using this section to unfairly deprive community members of the ability to create community web sites. If that was the case, there'd be no reason to create an agreement in the first place. In fact, there'd have been no reason to update our trademark guidelines at all to allow domain name use by the community! The agreement gives Red Hat a way to be very liberal in permitting community members to use the Fedora trademarks on personally owned sites to help spread Fedora effectively worldwide.

Another concern was the specific requirements for how the trademarks needed to be used and identified on a site covered by the TLA. Richard Körber complained that those requirements were too restrictive, leaving his site at risk because of minor violations:

Now when I take the TLA literally, then Red Hat would be allowed to terminate the TLA immediately if I just forgot the trademark symbol on a very single "first instance" of "Fedora".

Körber concluded that the barrier was just too high: "Frankly, I would rather drop the domain or close down the entire site, before I would sign the TLA". Robert Scheck, who was asked to sign the original TLA back in March, agreed with Körber's conclusion. But, Luis Villa noted that, at some level, the existence of the agreement doesn't change anything:

In the meantime, it is silly to talk about shutting down your domain or 'extinguishing community' because of this agreement. If you're using the Fedora mark in a domain name, Red Hat/Fedora can already take it from you via ICANN. They're virtually guaranteed to win that case. If they want, they can almost certainly go far beyond that, using the rest of trademark law to shut down your website, not just take the domain. Bottom line: even if you never sign the agreement- even if the agreement had never been written- you'd still be at their mercy when using the mark. All that unpleasantness is still there.

There is a larger issue as well. Dimitris Glezos worries about the barrier created by requiring a signed agreement:

Right now we're putting obstacles and red-tape to excited community members. But these are the people who power our own community, these are the people who represent Fedora in conferences, local universities, at their jobs.

Glezos argues that any miscreants are not going to sign the agreement anyway, so requiring the TLA just makes it harder for those who want to help spread Fedora. Part of the problem is that the TLA is a legal document, so anyone considering signing it should either be very comfortable with what it means, or, as was suggested in the thread, consult a lawyer. That just creates an additional barrier as Wickert points out: "Is Red Hat really expecting their community members to pay for a lawyer if they want to contribute? That would be ridiculous."

Frields agrees: "If I thought that this process required people to go get attorneys I'd agree it's an utter failure." The underlying problem, though, is the need for active enforcement of trademarks. By licensing community members to use Fedora trademarks, Red Hat can still pursue other, unlicensed users—some of whom may be using those marks in a way that is detrimental to the project. Furthermore, engineers trying to solve legal problems may not be the best approach, Frields said:

But just as I wouldn't expect an attorney to figure out how to debug kernel problems, I wouldn't expect us on this list to be able to debug a legal agreement. However, we definitely can *report* problems and help in the testing. Both activities are important, just as they are in our project when we deal with code.

As it turns out, those bug reports did reach someone who can help: Pamela Chestek, a trademark attorney who works for Red Hat. She had a lengthy response to the various questions and problems that had been raised in the thread. Chestek started by trying to allay fears that there was a Red Hat agenda behind the TLA:

It's important for you to know that when I do work on behalf of Fedora, my only responsibility is to do what's best for Fedora. The agreement is intended to protect the collective interest of the Fedora Project and community as a whole. You may not like how the agreement affects you as an individual, and you may disagree that the decisions accomplish the goal. But Red Hat has no hidden agenda and the only consideration when making decisions is Fedora's best interest.

In addition, she went point by point through the issues that had been raised. To start with, she explained the reasoning behind clause 3(a), which allowed Red Hat to terminate the license at will, noting that it allowed the Fedora community more flexibility should it decide to change the Fedora name at some point. But, she said, "Because this has been so controversial, though, we can forgo the flexibility and eliminate this basis for termination". The current version of the agreement now reflects that change.

While Chestek's explanation of the domain transfer requirement still may not sit well with some, it does at least explain why it exists:

It would be exceptionally damaging to the Fedora Project if a domain name that was previously used for the betterment of the project fell into the hands of wrongdoers and was used in a way harmful to Fedora. It would even be damaging if people were used to visiting a particular site for Fedora info but that site just wasn't there anymore, because we would have lost touch with community members and they might think less of Fedora because of it. It's just not in the best interest of the Fedora Project to let that happen.

On the indemnification clause, Chestek explained that it was there to ensure fairness for both sides. In any legal action that was brought against the site for content or behavior that had nothing to do with Red Hat, the site owner would be responsible, but "if the only reason you are in the lawsuit is because you are using the Fedora trademark, Red Hat has to pay the whole amount. That seems fair."

She also addressed the issue of minor problems with how the trademarks were used on the site noting that the wording requires a "material breach" of the agreement. Chestek pointed out that the trademark guidelines were included by reference in the agreement, "but it would take a flagrant disregard for the Guidelines before it would be considered a 'material' breach". Even if that were to happen, there is a cure provision that would give a site owner seven days to address a problem that Red Hat notified them about.

Overall, Chestek covered the main legal (as opposed to philosophical) issues that were brought up. She clearly listened to the suggestions and complaints, and made changes where she thought it appropriate. The interaction displayed is very different than the sometimes lofty—and unapproachable—position that lawyers tend to occupy. By engaging the community in its normal communication forums, Chestek is well on the way to heading off some serious unhappiness amongst some in the community.

There may still be those who disagree with the TLA, philosophically or because of the language it contains, but, at the very least, everyone should understand the reasoning behind it. Free software projects using trademarks is controversial; we have seen Mozilla also wrestle with the problem and are likely to see other projects do so in the future. It is in a project's best interest to ensure that something called Fedora (or Firefox) is, indeed, the "real McCoy" and not some malware-afflicted knock-off. How exactly that is done will likely evolve over time. Villa sees some hope in the distance:

Look, I'm not a big fan of this trademark agreement; I think it is probably overkill and certainly reflects a centralized view of trademark that is harmful to how we operate as a peer production community. If I had my way Fedora (and Mozilla, etc., etc.) would radically reinvent how they license their marks. But that is a subject for another day, because it is complex and will require many months or years of lawyering to get completely right, and that is even if other lawyers agreed with me- which most don't!

Various projects have different ways of approaching the trademark issue. Mozilla has a trademark policy that does not require a signed agreement for using its trademarks on a web site, but does have a license [PDF] for using the trademarks in domain names. That license has much of the same content as the Fedora TLA, including transferring the domain if the license is terminated. Other projects, like Linux, have a different strategy: sublicensing the mark for use in other trademarks, but considering most other uses to be "fair use"—though still subject to proper trademark attribution.

Because trademarks have to be actively, and not selectively, enforced, there needs to be a clear delineation as to what is allowed, and what isn't. Whether it truly requires a signed license agreement is an open question, but clearly Red Hat lawyers think it is safer to do things that way. One alternative is for the mark holder to disallow any use by third parties—a much worse outcome.

While it may be distasteful to have to sign some kind of agreement, it may also be the only workable solution that will satisfy Red Hat, which, after all, does own the trademarks. It will be interesting to see how other projects—particularly those backed by a large company—handle the trademark issue down the road.



to post comments

trademark is not supposed to be used to suppress criticism

Posted Sep 1, 2009 22:39 UTC (Tue) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link] (10 responses)

trademark is not supposed to be used to suppress criticism, it's supposed to prevent confusion among consumers due to people falsely claiming to be associated with the protected trademark

so the reasoning that they need to be able to take over domains to protect themselves from someone changing a pro-fedora site into an anti-fedora site isn't reasonable

trademark is not supposed to be used to suppress criticism

Posted Sep 2, 2009 0:07 UTC (Wed) by josh (subscriber, #17465) [Link] (9 responses)

I don't think they have that aim in mind. I suspect the case they have in mind involves the kind of spammers who pick up an expired domain and stick ads or other garbage on it, for instance.

trademark is not supposed to be used to suppress criticism

Posted Sep 2, 2009 0:17 UTC (Wed) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link] (8 responses)

from the article:

It would be exceptionally damaging to the Fedora Project if a domain name that was previously used for the betterment of the project fell into the hands of wrongdoers and was used in a way harmful to Fedora. It would even be damaging if people were used to visiting a particular site for Fedora info but that site just wasn't there anymore, because we would have lost touch with community members and they might think less of Fedora because of it. It's just not in the best interest of the Fedora Project to let that happen.

I'll try to re-word my statement

the purpose of trademark isn't to prevent people thinking less of the fedora project, it's to prevent people from claiming to be/represent the fedora project.

as an example, there have been linux news sites that were sold, and the new owners started running news stories critical of linux. trandmark law has not been used to shut those sites down. the statement above seems to indicate that if this happened to a fedora news site, they want to be able to silence it.

trademark is not supposed to be used to suppress criticism

Posted Sep 2, 2009 2:29 UTC (Wed) by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639) [Link] (3 responses)

I think you are applying your own very out of context definition to the term "damaging" in order to make a strawman argument when you clearly know that such a situation is not what trademark protection concerns itself with. There has been no discussion about using trademark rights to stifle discussion(positive or negative) when the discussion is really about Fedora. You may not be aware of this..but negative criticism can be a "betterment" to a project.

To make the suggestion that dissenting opinions would be stifled via trademark policy is moderately insulting. There's no way that would hold up in court. And besides, there would be absolute hell to pay in terms of a contributor backlash inside the Fedora project if that sort of censorship was ever attempted.

The "damage" in the context of trademark policy is about confusion of the mark with creative works and services not created or maintained by the Fedora Project. Reading anything into the word "damage" beyond that is unwarranted and inappropriate. If someone wants to write pages and pages in a scathing article about the deficiencies in the Fedora Project..and can use the trademarks in a non-confusing way in the article... they'll still be able to.

-jef

trademark is not supposed to be used to suppress criticism

Posted Sep 2, 2009 8:15 UTC (Wed) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link] (2 responses)

damaging in trademark terms would be someone creating a new distro, calling it 'fedora', and filling it with spyware (or just making it not work)

having a website that formerly hosted news about the real fedora distro go offline because the person who had been writing it moved to a different distro should not be, but this is explictly called out as one of the things they want to be able to defend against by taking over someone else's domain.

if they consider a new site going dark to be 'damaging' to the project, I don't see how they could consider a news site that started bashing them to not be.

trademark is not supposed to be used to suppress criticism

Posted Sep 2, 2009 9:03 UTC (Wed) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] (1 responses)

What about if a well known end user facing site goes offline and gets purchased by a third party and used for porn? If it a site simply goes offline, it is much less of a problem.

Watching the domains

Posted Sep 2, 2009 19:58 UTC (Wed) by dmarti (subscriber, #11625) [Link]

Someone at Red Hat would have to set up a cron job to run Rick Moen's domain-check script, then take action if a Fedora-related site is about to lose its domain.

trademark is not supposed to be used to suppress criticism

Posted Sep 4, 2009 5:38 UTC (Fri) by njs (subscriber, #40338) [Link] (3 responses)

And why would these hypothetical fedora haters want to post their opinions on a domain that formerly belonged to the fedora project, out of all the domains on the internet? The only reason I can see is that they wanted to take advantage of the association of that domain with the official fedora project, and preventing that seems like a classic legitimate use of trademark. It's not like telling them they have to find their *own* place to post is really going to stop anyone from expressing themselves...

trademark is not supposed to be used to suppress criticism

Posted Sep 4, 2009 20:36 UTC (Fri) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link]

it only 'formerly belonged to the fedora project' if you also believe that lwn.net belongs to Linus because he owns the trademark for Linux and lwn.net posts news about linux.

trademark is not supposed to be used to suppress criticism

Posted Sep 4, 2009 21:50 UTC (Fri) by giraffedata (guest, #1954) [Link] (1 responses)

The only reason I can see is that they wanted to take advantage of the association of that domain with the official fedora project, and preventing that seems like a classic legitimate use of trademark.

No, preventing people from taking advantage of the trademark holder's reputation is not a classic legitimate use of trademark. It's about what the customer, and incidentally the trademark holder, loses, not what the user of the trademark gains.

A Fedora hater would want to take over a formerly pro-Fedora domain name in order to gain an audience of people to be turned against Fedora. Trademark doesn't care about that. If it's perfectly clear to visitors to the site that it is not a product of the Fedora project, trademark has nothing to say about it.

The classic trademark application is where you sell your inferior cola under the name Coca Cola and thereby cheat the drinker. Incidentally, you also deprive the Coca Cola corporation of profit, so Coca Cola would take the lead in stopping you.

trademark is not supposed to be used to suppress criticism

Posted Sep 5, 2009 0:33 UTC (Sat) by njs (subscriber, #40338) [Link]

> Trademark doesn't care about that. If it's perfectly clear to visitors to the site that it is not a product of the Fedora project, trademark has nothing to say about it.

Sure, but when trademark has nothing to say, then the trademark license agreement is irrelevant.

Fedora's trademark license agreement

Posted Sep 2, 2009 15:24 UTC (Wed) by Baylink (guest, #755) [Link] (1 responses)

> But Red Hat isn't interested in using this section to unfairly deprive community members of the ability to create community web sites.

Wickert has read his Clausewitz; Red Hat hasn't.

Red Hat is a large corporation with staff counsel; it's not unreasonable for people to whom it might want to apply some agreement to close-read it, and construe it against Red Hat, and it's sort of disingenuous on RH's part to act as if it's an unthinkable thing for someone like Wickert to do.

It's just prudent.

In any event, nearly all uses of "Fedora" in these contexts are either identifying or editorial, and aren't subject to trademark control, anyway. (IANAL)

Fedora's trademark license agreement

Posted Sep 2, 2009 22:12 UTC (Wed) by fmarier (subscriber, #19894) [Link]

Many common uses of the Fedora trademark are covered by what is known as "Nominative use" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_use) and therefore not require signing this agreement.

Trademarks

Posted Sep 3, 2009 8:28 UTC (Thu) by job (guest, #670) [Link] (1 responses)

Isn't it a bit strange that you need not debug any legalese when setting up Linux Weekly News but a Fedora Weekly News would absolutely require it. Yet undoubtedly Linux is the stronger trademark here.

No project that's still alive has the problem that their trademark is too weak. If someone publishes a trojanized bash or gnupg, the route to take against that simply isn't trademark law. And supporting news sites and other community domain names come and go all the time. Nobody thinks less of Debian just because some old news site got picked up to advertise things related to bodily functions instead.

Of course all lawyers will emphasize the importance of protecting one's trademark, while I'm sure it's all technically correct it's also in their own interest. There are thousands of real problems to solve for a Linux distribution but this just isn't on the top thousand, it's premature micro optimization for a non-relevant use case.

Any time you are required to give up certain rights to participate in a community, that's a sure sign it's a community you don't want to be part of. Any time you require your users to climb hurdles to get the privilege of helping you, your potential user base decreases.

Trademarks

Posted Sep 3, 2009 12:19 UTC (Thu) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

"Isn't it a bit strange that you need not debug any legalese when setting up Linux Weekly News but a Fedora Weekly News would absolutely require it. Yet undoubtedly Linux is the stronger trademark here"

Linux is a stronger brand. It isn't clear that Linux as a trademark can be effectively enforced anymore however.

"Any time you are required to give up certain rights to participate in a community, that's a sure sign it's a community you don't want to be part of."

And yet, I can't think of single community where you don't give up atleast some rights. Generalizations will only take you so far.


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