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Android development?

Posted May 24, 2013 1:10 UTC (Fri) by Howitzer (guest, #91109)
Parent article: Three Ubuntu releases reach end of life

So I guess I've been wasting my time building a 10.04 64-bit environment to use as an Android development machine? Google's developer pages state it's best to use this Ubuntu release for building AOSP projects. Seems like using this release is ill advised at this point.


Numerous security issues in X Window System clients

Posted May 24, 2013 0:48 UTC (Fri) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
In reply to: Numerous security issues in X Window System clients by dig
Parent article: Numerous security issues in X Window System clients

> X Windows does _not_ use network for drawing, but only to exchange window details like position, size and atoms.
Actually, it does.

With lots of ways to do it, from simple zero-width lines to antialiased trapezeoids in X-render. With lots of complicated code which runs in the X-server, with the root privileges. Here's documentation for some of it: http://tronche.com/gui/x/xlib/graphics/

In short, it's been known for ages that the X server is about as holey as Swiss cheese.


Numerous security issues in X Window System clients

Posted May 24, 2013 0:35 UTC (Fri) by dig (guest, #91108)
In reply to: Numerous security issues in X Window System clients by Cyberax
Parent article: Numerous security issues in X Window System clients

X Windows does _not_ use network for drawing, but only to exchange window details like position, size and atoms.

X protocol isn't complicated, but only verbose after all these years. I'm waiting to see how Wayland protocol will look like and behave after 20 years...


QEMU 1.5.0 released

Posted May 24, 2013 0:25 UTC (Fri) by prometheanfire (subscriber, #65683)
In reply to: QEMU 1.5.0 released by jdulaney
Parent article: QEMU 1.5.0 released

Ya, that's what I thought :(


Numerous security issues in X Window System clients

Posted May 24, 2013 0:23 UTC (Fri) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
In reply to: Numerous security issues in X Window System clients by zlynx
Parent article: Numerous security issues in X Window System clients

Quartz and Android's SurfaceFlinger do NOT use network for drawing, only for event dispatching and synchronization. That makes them radically simpler and more secure.

The same goes for Wayland and Weston.


Numerous security issues in X Window System clients

Posted May 24, 2013 0:04 UTC (Fri) by zlynx (subscriber, #2285)
In reply to: Numerous security issues in X Window System clients by FranTaylor
Parent article: Numerous security issues in X Window System clients

Where does this myth that X is somehow different and special come from?

EVERY major operating system now uses a display server and you may as well complain about DWM or Quartz.


Numerous security issues in X Window System clients

Posted May 23, 2013 23:52 UTC (Thu) by rqosa (subscriber, #24136)
In reply to: Numerous security issues in X Window System clients by FranTaylor
Parent article: Numerous security issues in X Window System clients

But for many years now, the default X server configuration does not allow network connections, but instead uses AF_LOCAL only — and even Wayland is using AF_LOCAL sockets as its IPC mechanism (according to the documentation). So you can't blame this on the use of network connections.

Really, any code that does IPC (regardless of what IPC mechanism is used) with an untrusted process must be carefully written to make no false assumptions about what the other process sends; there's no way around it.


An unexpected perf feature

Posted May 23, 2013 23:33 UTC (Thu) by PaXTeam (subscriber, #24616)
In reply to: An unexpected perf feature by helge.bahmann
Parent article: An unexpected perf feature

1. the ALU concept is so 80's ;). seriously, 'modern' CPUs are a tad bit more complex, Intel and AMD CPUs have all dedicated adders for address calculations (not just for the already mentioned purposes but also for rip-relative addressing). TLS not being a fast path is probably news to everyone spending their time on multithreaded applications, and Intel, in the grand conspiracy of schemes, must have added dedicated fs/gs base manipulating insns to their latest CPUs in order to slow these workloads down even more. as for the BTB, isn't it indexed by virtual and not logical addresses?

2. ASIDs cannot by definition be cheaper, paging related caches and checks will always require more circuits and cycles than a simple comparator. not sure what address space layout decisions have to do with this though, when you have ASIDs by definition you have full address spaces for each ASID. if you meant mixing different ASIDs in the same virtual address space (how?), then nobody does that.

conceptually ASIDs are indeed more generic except this fact is utterly irrelevant, there isn't a mainstream OS out there that would make use of this ability (i.e., mix user and kernel pages in arbitrary ways in the same address space). in practice everyone simply divides the virtual address space into two parts between userland and the kernel, so simple limit checking would do just fine (vs. checking access rights at every level of the paging hierarchy).

3. ASIDs do have their uses indeed, in fact i would love to have a better mechanism on Intel/AMD CPUs to implement some of my ideas but for simple user/kernel separation a segment limit check has no match.

4. to understand the difference in the security level provided by a segmentation and paging based non-exec/no-access kernel protection scheme we have to consider the attacker's assumed ability. against an arbitrary read and write capability they're equivalent. however this is the ideal attacker model only we use to evaluate theoretical boundaries of protection schemes, in practice we rarely get such bugs and that's exactly where the difference becomes important. in particular, the segmentation based approach can achieve a certain level of self-protection by simply ensuring that the top-level page tables enforce the read-only property on the GDTs whereas doing the same for page tables themselves is much harder - this is the attack surface difference. that said, KERNEXEC (on i386/amd64 so far) does attempt to minimize the exposure of top-level page tables but it's far from being a closed system yet (breaking up kernel large page mappings, tracking virtual aliases, etc have non-negligible performance impact).

5. what has segmentation been designed for then? surely there's only so much you can do with a data or code segment ;). why is it difficult to make it efficient in hardware? and which particular bit (there're many descriptor types)? why would paging related data structures be easier to handle in hw than segmentation ones? and how do you imagine beating a simple comparator? so far you haven't offered any facts to make me think otherwise.


Numerous security issues in X Window System clients

Posted May 23, 2013 23:32 UTC (Thu) by drag (subscriber, #31333)
In reply to: Numerous security issues in X Window System clients by FranTaylor
Parent article: Numerous security issues in X Window System clients

X Windows doesn't use network connections for no valid reason. It uses local unix sockets and only network connections when explicitly configured to do so.

The problems stem from bugs in the client libraries used to manage the complex protocol.


Numerous security issues in X Window System clients

Posted May 23, 2013 23:04 UTC (Thu) by FranTaylor (guest, #80190)
Parent article: Numerous security issues in X Window System clients

Surprise surprise, using network connections for no valid reason is not exactly a winning strategy.

Remote X has never worked right and yet we all must endure security vulnerabilities because of irrational desires for stuff that doesn't provide any benefit.


QEMU 1.5.0 released

Posted May 23, 2013 22:57 UTC (Thu) by jdulaney (subscriber, #83672)
In reply to: QEMU 1.5.0 released by prometheanfire
Parent article: QEMU 1.5.0 released

To get hardware virt on your Chromebook, you need to build the 3.9 kernel and replace the uboot in flash with a custom uboot that allows you to enter hypervisor mode.

BTW, if you do run the 3.9 kernel, don't expect things like the lcd to work. You'll have to either add a USB network dongle (for ssh) or solder wires to the UART pads.


Empty symlinks and full POSIX compliance

Posted May 23, 2013 22:37 UTC (Thu) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313)
In reply to: Empty symlinks and full POSIX compliance by rgmoore
Parent article: Empty symlinks and full POSIX compliance

In case it's not clear, I completely agree with you. I was just talking about the value to be gained by following POSIX at all (I was replying to a post effectively claiming that POSIX is completely irrelevant and should be ignored/scrapped)


Separating benefit and liability

Posted May 23, 2013 22:25 UTC (Thu) by Wol (guest, #4433)
Parent article: EFF: Vermont Is Mad as Hell at Patent Trolls

One problem with a lot of trolls is they are incorporated with no assets except their patents. So even if you win and get awarded costs, the troll simply folds and you're left with nothing.

In the UK we have a neat way of dealing with that. The limited liability that protects shareholders and officers explicitly does NOT cover being "an extension of the directors' will". Which would most certainly cover a troll corporation created to sue but have no assets in the event they lost. No veil, and directors and shareholders become personally liable for the corporation's debts ...

(In UK legalese, "director" can mean anybody with the authority to give orders, ie "to direct".)

Cheers,
Wol


How Google plans to rule the computing world through Chrome (GigaOM)

Posted May 23, 2013 22:20 UTC (Thu) by robert_s (subscriber, #42402)
In reply to: How Google plans to rule the computing world through Chrome (GigaOM) by dlang
Parent article: How Google plans to rule the computing world through Chrome (GigaOM)

I was under the impression that the conversation had moved beyond the scope of just ChromeOS code.

The increasing spread of javascript makes me shudder generally (and so it should - it means there's a far greater likelihood of me having to work closely with it even more).


Distribution quotes of the week

Posted May 23, 2013 22:17 UTC (Thu) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
In reply to: Distribution quotes of the week by jubal
Parent article: Distribution quotes of the week

That's a pitiful excuse. Lets hope everyone sticks to the technical pros/cons of the project instead of behaving as if this is a celebrity gossip column.


Google Code to deprecate downloads

Posted May 23, 2013 22:14 UTC (Thu) by Lukehasnoname (subscriber, #65152)
In reply to: Google Code to deprecate downloads by imgx64
Parent article: Google Code to deprecate downloads

As someone who has tried to grok Git and Bzr, I understood Bzr much more quickly and started using it in a project with real understanding.

That's not a rebuttal to your claim, but to the more general anti-bzr opinion, which is fine to have.


Introducing Boot to Qt

Posted May 23, 2013 21:55 UTC (Thu) by dashesy (subscriber, #74652)
Parent article: Introducing Boot to Qt

Those numbers are amazing, and so is Qt. Cannot wait to see Qt take over Java-bloat on my phone.


Empty symlinks and full POSIX compliance

Posted May 23, 2013 21:31 UTC (Thu) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75)
In reply to: Empty symlinks and full POSIX compliance by dlang
Parent article: Empty symlinks and full POSIX compliance

There is value in being POSIX compliant, but you get 99.999%+ of the value by being "almost" POSIX compliant the way Linux is.

It seems to me that refusing to follow the POSIX behavior when it's really stupid, as Linux is doing by refusing to create symlinks named the empty string, probably gives you slightly more value than rigid adherence to the standard would.


Google Code to deprecate downloads

Posted May 23, 2013 21:10 UTC (Thu) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198)
In reply to: Google Code to deprecate downloads by madscientist
Parent article: Google Code to deprecate downloads

Google is clearly supporting Linux as a first class citizen for many of their other services such as Google Talk/Hangouts, Chrome, Google Music Manager, etc. so I'm not sure why they haven't ported their Drive client app which is just Python, wxWindows and SQLite.


dedent

Posted May 23, 2013 21:07 UTC (Thu) by ewen (subscriber, #4772)
Parent article: Python and implicit string concatenation

There is a useful textwrap.dedent() (in the standard library since 2.3 AFAICT), which can be used to dedent triple quoted strings -- it will even remove just common indenting, leaving any extra per-line indenting intact. I've successfully used it in contexts where I might have used here documents in perl or Bourne shell.

Ewen


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