Linux loses the Phillips webcam driver [LWN.net]

Linux loses the Phillips webcam driver

Posted Aug 27, 2004 16:56 UTC (Fri) by raymond (guest, #5200)
Parent article: Linux loses the Philips webcam driver

Both the author and the kernel maintainers' standpoints are understandable. We all lose when the driver (this, or any other) support is dropped. But if binary drivers is encouraged, true open source driver may be discouraged.

I have long heard of the theory that binary driver should be discouraged. I feel frustrated very much when I deal with my binary ide-raid driver, for instance.

However, my humble opinion is that we should not discourage any thing that support Linux (or open source software).

In many cases, I can't recommend my friends to use Linux, just because many drivers aren't supported in Linux. And my friends are just ordinary users.

My theory is that we should encourage binary drivers, too. Then more people can enjoy Linux.

Yes! We (open source users) may be endangered if there are only closed source programs (and drivers). But if open source is really better (both from vendors' and users' points of view), then ultimately, open source code will prevail.

In all, I think we should not discourage anything (binary drivers, and others) to Linux. Just when more crowd use Linux (and other open source software), and vendors are attracted to Linux, with competition, smart vendors will win with open source code.

Extra *****
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This is alway true nowadays.

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Linux loses the Phillips webcam driver

Posted Aug 30, 2004 8:58 UTC (Mon) by tyhik (subscriber, #14747) [Link]

"However, my humble opinion is that we should not discourage any thing that support Linux (or open source software)."

Which is producing worse user experience/publicity - preventing some
people migrating to linux because some hardware is not
supported or forsing somebody to move off from linux, because
the maintainer stops supporting or removes his binary-only
support? You remember what triggered this thread here and elsewhere?

Linux loses the Phillips webcam driver

Posted Aug 31, 2004 0:09 UTC (Tue) by raymond (guest, #5200) [Link]

My theory is that open source will win because it is just better in native (for both user and vendor, and indeed, everyone). But before we reach the point that everyone realize this, we have to promote Linux (and open source) practically.

The approach should be "not prohibit anything", as soon as it doesn't violate open source.

I think the whole matter requires technical understanding to the kernel, which I frankly don't. My understanding is limited and may be wrong. I guess that the open source drivers are within the kernel tree. While the kernel maintainer is doing all-the-thing to uphold this. That's perfect and I agree very much.

But we should also encourage binary driver too. I guess we can put it in the user space (and some people are doing it already?), but somehow it will require separate maintanence. That's reasonable. What we should do to improve Linux's driver support is to make this work easier.

Binary driver is often making bad user experience. I think so.

But people know the difference (well, utimately) of non-open and open source code.

In all, we have to make binary driver interface with Linux well. And indeed, we have to make everything interface with Linux well. Then by natural selection, open source will win.

Again, question from a (not knowledgeable enough) programmer: can we make the binary driver compatible to main kernel tree in some way that minimum work is needed when the kernel tree progress changes?

Linux loses the Phillips webcam driver

Posted Aug 31, 2004 7:36 UTC (Tue) by tyhik (subscriber, #14747) [Link]

Open source can win only if it evolves. The problem with
the GPL-ed part of the webcam driver was that the
author declared it will remain unmaintained. And unmaintained
drivers tend to "rot", because kernel's requirements to
drivers change over time.

Linus has explicitly declared that the in-kernel
interfaces won't be immutable. In the long
run this is a very right decision. Companies come and go,
their attitude to open source may change and then change again,
but the kernel must move on.

You know how many mandrake users have blamed mandrake recently
because they were not able to get their nvidia kickass 3d cards
working without recompiling the kernel. The real problem was
that while mandrake enabled
4kB stacks option in the kernel as thousands of inkernel drivers could
happily work with 4k stacks, nvidia was not able to
port their driver to comply with 4k stack requirement for about 5
months. Kernel evolves
and drivers must follow. Unmaintained open source drivers are bad, but
simple changes to them can be made even by people, who are not
overly familiar with the code. Unmaintained (or poorly maintained)
binary drivers are far worse,
as they can generate lot of bad linux experience, while
being fixable only by the author.