X at OLS [LWN.net]

X at OLS

Posted Jul 23, 2004 12:01 UTC (Fri) by ncm (subscriber, #165)
In reply to: X at OLS by niallm
Parent article: X at OLS

"Anymore", in the positive sense, is a regional usage, meant to mean "nowadays". Correctly used, it is always coupled with a negative: "The bulk of X traffic is not ordinary X events any more, but image data".

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X at OLS

Posted Jul 23, 2004 20:42 UTC (Fri) by socket (subscriber, #43) [Link]

I can't resist this. From the Oxford English Dictionary online:

more, a. (n.) and adv. [...] 4. [...] The phrase any more (freq. written as anymore) (see B. 4a), in which more is the absolute adj., is used advb. in the same sense, and has superseded the simple adv. except in rhetorical or poetic use; also dial. (chiefly U.S.) used in affirmative as well as negative contexts in the sense ‘now, now-a-days, at the present time; from now on’. See also NO MORE adv.

I use this sense of "anymore" a lot - both positive and negative. It may be regional, but that region is apparently large enough that the OED considers the U.S. to be that region.

And speaking as a linguist, I find it annoying when people say things like "Correctly used," because the "correct" forms more often match up with archaic forms, and very often with a couple-centuries-old idea that English would be better off if it were more like Latin, leading to rules about how "This is a sentence construction up with which we should not put," which nobody, 200 years ago or now, really thinks is a reasonable way to express oneself as a native English speaker.

So nyeh.

X at OLS

Posted Jul 25, 2004 14:45 UTC (Sun) by ncm (subscriber, #165) [Link]

Apparently the OED doesn't distinguish among bits of the colonies. The American Heritage Dictionary identifies it as regional, restricted primarily to Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Iowa, Oklahoma, and Northern Ireland.

The restriction to qualifying negative clauses doesn't come from some arbitrary Latin rule. It comes directly from the meanings of the words "any" and "more", which a moment's thought will elucidate. "Correct usage" does have, at base, an objective meaning: it means "expected to be understood by most readers". The usage in question manifestly confused enough readers that one posted his distress.

Peculiar latinate constructions, by contrast, have never been a part of spoken English.

"anymore"

Posted Jul 29, 2004 4:20 UTC (Thu) by Duncan (guest, #6647) [Link]

Interesting. My upline family resides primarily in the US northwest,
Oregon and Washington, altho I spent six years growing up in Kenya, East
Africa, as a missionary kid, and have lived in New Mexico, graduated high
school in Colorado, attended college in Nebraska, and am now (after
another stint in Oregon) residing in Arizona.

IOW, while I've had a generally broad geographic experience, none of it
has been in the area claimed to be the region the term is used. However,
it seemed an entirely ordinary term, to me. I wouldn't have been aware of
its "regional" usage, had I not read this thread. <shrug> Maybe one of
the other missionary families came from Tennessee, or something, and their
usage rubbed off on me. I don't know. I just know it sounds entirely
natural to me. <shrug>

Duncan

"upline family"

Posted Jul 30, 2004 22:28 UTC (Fri) by cdurst (guest, #2953) [Link]

Interesting. My upline family resides primarily in the US northwest, ...

Upline family?

Yech, MLM terms are seeping into English!

Kill me now.

"anymore"

Posted Aug 5, 2004 15:15 UTC (Thu) by fache (guest, #23795) [Link]

Just for the sake of discussion, in the six years I have been living in
England, I have never heard nor read anymore used like so. I would thing
it's an americanism. Thanks for explaining anyway!

incorrect usage

Posted Jul 30, 2004 16:15 UTC (Fri) by giraffedata (subscriber, #1954) [Link]

"Correct usage" does have, at base, an objective meaning: it means "expected to be understood by most readers".

That's just the opposite of how I understand "correct usage."

The term is used to distinguish two sentences that both can easily be understood. The "correct" one additionally follows certain rules so as not to offend language purists. I personally find the correct form less ambiguous in many cases, but unless you know the grammar well, as most native speakers do not, you don't.

Example: "to send someone an email, click on their address." Easily understood, but incorrect because "their" is plural and "someone" is singular.

A sentence that can't be understood -- which is just jibberish -- usually goes by some description other than "incorrect usage."

incorrect usage

Posted Aug 5, 2004 6:37 UTC (Thu) by xoddam (subscriber, #2322) [Link]

That's "gibberish", to you :-)

X at OLS

Posted Aug 5, 2004 6:36 UTC (Thu) by xoddam (subscriber, #2322) [Link]

> Apparently the OED doesn't distinguish among bits of the colonies.
> The American Heritage Dictionary identifies it as regional,
> restricted primarily to Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Iowa,
> Oklahoma, and Northern Ireland.

Interesting ... I first heard it in Glasgow, and supposed it was Scots.
But I may only have heard it once and the speaker may have been from
Ulster ... hmm.

correct usage

Posted Jul 30, 2004 16:01 UTC (Fri) by giraffedata (subscriber, #1954) [Link]

>the "correct" forms more often match up with archaic forms,

As the language changes, there are varying opinions at any moment as to what is archaic. Someone says some usage is "correct" when he believes that it has not yet become archaic, but others often find that it is (because they learned some newer way first). Even the most pedantic proponent of correct English today would not say that "thou" is correct in any sentence, but he might believe the rule against dangling a preposition is still current.

>"This is a sentence construction up with which we should not put," which nobody, 200 years ago or now, really thinks is a reasonable way to express oneself as a native English speaker.

More to the point, nobody ever thought it was correct, which makes it irrelevant to this point. "up" in this sentence is a verb particle, not a preposition, and that means the correct sentence is, "this is a sentence construction with which we should not put up."

Even that sounds awkward to many current speakers, particularly uneducated ones, who prefer "... which we should not put up with." But it's still a respected enough construction to call "correct usage," and therefore to consider using if you want people to think you're smart and to avoid offending sensitive ears.