Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) [LWN.net]

Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com)

Posted Jun 25, 2004 20:58 UTC (Fri) by khim (subscriber, #9252)
In reply to: Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) by RobSeace
Parent article: Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com)

It doesn't FEEL like any sort of real-world crime...

And why the hell should it FEEL like real-world crime? It's perfectly natural thing to do after all...

While I do not always agree with RMS here he's alsolutely right.

In other words, when the public is challenged to show why publishers should not receive some additional power, the most important reason of all -- "We want to copy" -- is disqualified in advance.

If you'll think about it he's 100% right. People do want to copy. That's the whole reason any DRM will fail and any protection will be circumvented.

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Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com)

Posted Jun 26, 2004 12:23 UTC (Sat) by ccchips (guest, #3222) [Link]

Then why not copy what people are offering to copy, instead of taking RIAA material? There are PLENTY of musicians around who are perfectly happy for us to copy, and often even re-distribute, their work.

That's actually the main point I've been trying to get across all this time: that we'd be far better off to support *them*, so the RIAA will then lose all its power.

Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com)

Posted Jun 27, 2004 7:59 UTC (Sun) by piman (subscriber, #8957) [Link]

But supporting independent labels and artists does not require passing any kind of laws against P2P networks; it requires (at best) copyright laws, and definitely ones looser than the existing ones. It might not even require that. What you're talking about is totally orthogonal to the actual issue of the bill.

Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com)

Posted Jun 28, 2004 15:21 UTC (Mon) by ccchips (guest, #3222) [Link]

No, it's not. As long as people are permitted to copy and distribute movies and music, there will be abuse. These crazy politicians are trying to stop that abuse by creating a hostile climate for copying, and this I do *not* agree with, because there are far too many legitimate reasons to have that ability, even for movies and music. I oppose this bill.

BUT, I also have serious doubts that this kind of bill will be stopped, if maqssive numbers of people continue to copy and then distribute materials from companies which the RIAA represent, and which did not give permission to copy.

I cannot understand why people who are so well-versed in the world of Free software, as yourselves, don't understand or agree with my point, which is that we, as leaders in the movement toward freedom, should encourage others to move *away* from RIAA-backed and prohibitive entities, and favor entities which are not prohibitive. I sincerely believe that such efforts will help to quell the political movement that appears to want to ban P2P networks and copying.

Even Richard Stallman, when talking about copying software, shuns the idea of copying proprietary software for 2 reasons (1) it aggravates the makers of that software into becoming more restrictive, and (2) it spreads proprietary software around, thus encouraging people to use it. He would rather see people copy free software, and distribute it, while at the same time encouraging others to do so.

Why wouldn't this same principle apply to music and movies?

Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com)

Posted Jun 28, 2004 15:50 UTC (Mon) by RobSeace (subscriber, #4435) [Link]

> I cannot understand why people who are so well-versed in the world of Free
> software, as yourselves, don't understand or agree with my point, which is
> that we, as leaders in the movement toward freedom, should encourage others
> to move *away* from RIAA-backed and prohibitive entities, and favor
> entities which are not prohibitive.

I don't think I saw anyone disagree with this point... I think it's probably
futile and unlikely to actually cause anyone to stop listening to RIAA music,
but there's certainly nothing wrong with trying... (It's the same sort of
situation with trying to convince most people to use open source rather
than Microsoft's software... Most people just aren't going to be convinced,
no matter WHAT you say or do... But, that doesn't mean you should stop
trying either...)

> I sincerely believe that such efforts will help to quell the political
> movement that appears to want to ban P2P networks and copying.

Now, THIS I think many people might disagree with... I think you're just
wrong about this... If lots of people moved away from RIAA artists, and it
really started hurting them, then they'd probably get even MORE rabid and
determined in the pursuit of such evil laws... After all, they'd have
demonstrably proven negative effects on their business now... (Whereas, if
it's THEIR music being copied, there's really NO negative effect on their
business... Despite their rabid claims to the contrary... Most studies
have shown that, if anything, music sharing INCREASES their CD sales...)
And, if there's even ONE copy of ONE of their songs floating around somewhere
out there, they'd be able to blame it all on the evil Internet pirates, and
still convince the law-makers that they've bought and paid for to come up
with more draconian laws... Indeed, many people have said that the REAL
reason the RIAA wants to eliminate P2P now is for precisely this reason:
they're worried that such easy access to so much music will cause people to
migrate to independent bands, and cause more bands to want to go independent,
and then the RIAA will lose all of their control... I think this theory is
probably exactly right... They're not worried about losing money from any
'piracy'; as has been shown, they AREN'T losing any money because of it...
They're worried about losing their grip on artists, and their complete
control over the entire music industry... And, rightfully so; they're on
the verge of becoming completely and totally obsolete...

Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com)

Posted Jun 28, 2004 17:15 UTC (Mon) by ccchips (guest, #3222) [Link]

Much food for thought here....good analysis.

I will apply my energy toward fighting these kinds of laws, and toward encouraging my friends and neighbors to look at alternative sources of entertainment that are more free.

Eliminate the negative, IOW.

Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com)

Posted Jul 2, 2004 4:20 UTC (Fri) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link]

Great analysis! That really explain difference between RIAA and MPAA positions: new draconian laws are "the last hope" for RIAA while MPAA can exist without them.

Why so ? Movies can not be created for cheap. You need a lot of stuff to create good movie. Not $100 millions for sure but not $10'000 either. And you can not return all this without help of some distributors thus movie creators will seek help of MPAA for foreseable future.

RIAA on the other hand is obsolete already: $$ needed to produce good music can be raised by concerts and donations (you do not need super-high-end hardware to do succesefull song if you have something in head). If you'll remove (and I mean totally) any sales of CDs today there still will be enough musicants to fill the void (yes, some will be ruined but it'll be minority!)

So while MPAA can survive with appropriate change in direction RIAA can not. And they will find a way to harass everyone till they'll run out of power - and it does not matter if you are doing something illegal

today

or not. They'll find a way to make you criminal tomorrow.