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Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com)Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com)Posted Jun 24, 2004 16:42 UTC (Thu) by ccchips (guest, #3222)Parent article: Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) While I believe this is bad for freedom, I have to say I can't blame them. Time and time again, I have told friends and neighbors and colleagues not to steal copyrighted material (for instance, by taking DivX copies of such things as "The Two Towers", "Fellowship of the Ring", and so on, from people who post those items to the Internet. My fellow Americans refused to listen to me. I am a very *strong* proponent of freely-distributable music, video, speech, and whatnot; in fact, I am a very big fan of the DemoScene, SoundClick, the old MP3.COM, and all the rest of those sites. I also believe no one should be allowed to prevent me from, say, putting my own CD's into MP3 files so I can carry 1 CD on the bus instead of 20. BUT I WILL NOT HAVE SYMPATHY FOR PEOPLE WHO STEAL MUSIC AND MOVIES OVER THE INTERNET, and if there are companies that are deliberately attracting people to their service for that purpose, I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR THEM EITHER. Nor do I have sympathy for people who refuse to listen when I repeatedly tell them that if they don't stop this behavior, the rest of us will suffer. This whole business has really got me angry, and I know exactly who to blame (the big recording operations, and the thieves, and the organizations which encourage theft.) In short, people who copy, and then distribute, works of art without permission are the ones at fault here. If you are going to be concerned emough about this to take action, talk to *them.*
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Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) Posted Jun 24, 2004 16:46 UTC (Thu) by ccchips (guest, #3222) [Link] My objection agains the big recording operations, by the way, is that they are using this ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR THAT HAS GOTTEN ME REALLY UPSET as a means of getting tighter control over music and movie distribution. In that sense, those of you who are CONTINUING TO STEAL THESE ITEMS are egging these companies on. So, go ahead. But don't talk to me when you suddenly find out you have no rights left.
Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) Posted Jun 24, 2004 17:24 UTC (Thu) by Ross (subscriber, #4065) [Link] Oh whatever. What they are doing is already copyright infringement. So withthe new law it will be copyright infringement for them, plus for the P2P product developers. This is like the DMCA on steroids. The DMCA only affected tools which dealt with copy or access controls, this law could affect any tool which can make copies. That's pretty much every versatile computing technology that exists. How is IRC different from Gnutella? How is Usenet different from Kazaa? How is email different from Bit Torrent? Frankly this is the worst proposed copyright change since Holling's proposal
Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) Posted Jun 24, 2004 21:37 UTC (Thu) by ccchips (guest, #3222) [Link] Right....and all because people refused to listen when they were told not to copy and *distribute* music without permission.You'd thind there was a lesson in there somewhere.... ....like, say, if you want freedom, be responsible, and if you want to lose it, be irresponsible.
Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) Posted Jun 25, 2004 4:15 UTC (Fri) by Nick (subscriber, #15060) [Link] Oh dear. I hear people are still committing murder since Moses told them not to.Everyone please form an orderly queue outside your local penitentiary.
Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) Posted Jun 25, 2004 17:52 UTC (Fri) by ccchips (guest, #3222) [Link] No, it's more like:Oh, dear, people are still committing murder after Moses told them not to. We can't have that, because then we'll be dead. So either lock them up or deter them completely by killing them, so they won't kill us. Give me a break. There are 2 sides to this story, and you know it. I'm sorry for you if you're unwilling to see it that way. I'll just go away and wait until I no longer have the right to copy anything, because the rest of you who want that right don't see that there are 2 groups of people who are insuring that you don't have it. I give up.
The problem Posted Jun 25, 2004 4:52 UTC (Fri) by nicku (subscriber, #777) [Link] I think many people are in my situation: we want to buy music online, but cannot. I go to the local HMV superstore, and it does not have the music I want. I have a large CD collection, which I only use for ripping to ogg or MP3 formats, since it is much more convenient. I would love to be able to just buy that music online, at a reasonable price.I think that the record industry is so blind to the needs of the customer; they could be making money and friends instead of enemies. No I do not steal music from anyone. And I do not give others the files that I have paid for. But these legislators are on the wrong track.
Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) Posted Jun 25, 2004 12:05 UTC (Fri) by RobSeace (subscriber, #4435) [Link] This is the most insane justification of such evil rights-stripping attemptsI've ever heard... "Well, some people do bad things, so you have to expect our corporate overlords and masters to punish us all in return for the wrong-doings of a few! Stop whining, and bow to your masters!" Do you actually think that way?? My god, I pity you, if so... *shudder* You seem to think our freedoms are PRIVILEGES granted to us by our corporate
Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) Posted Jun 25, 2004 17:45 UTC (Fri) by ccchips (guest, #3222) [Link] I give up. You know what I'm trying to get across, and that I don't like these new laws either, and that they are evil.But you also know that's no justification for people distributing music and movies without permission. You must also know that this fight is going to hurt legitimate peer-to-peer users. Hell, if you think I'm siding with the recording industry, then I just give up. Go ahead and fight them whatever way you want. Just stand by and let people copy whatever they feel like. There are other ways out of this mess, and if nobody wants to make the effort to see what they are, fine. I give up.
Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) Posted Jun 25, 2004 18:13 UTC (Fri) by RobSeace (subscriber, #4435) [Link] > Just stand by and let people copy whatever they feel like.Well, it's not MY job (or yours) to police what other people do... I'm
Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) Posted Jun 25, 2004 18:50 UTC (Fri) by ccchips (guest, #3222) [Link] No point in drawing an analogy with a victimless crime (if you want to call it a crime.)People view records, CD's, DVD's videotapes, and movies as *products*, like lamps or furniture. I don't want the government involved either, but for that to happen, people have to police themselves. You draw the "joint" analogy, and it works perfectly into what I'm saying. In the 1970's, when people were starting to see that reefer wasn't so bad, the "market" responded by putting pipes, rolling-papers, bongs, and all manner of other drug paraphernalia into stores that sell candy and comic books to children. In other words, the market didn't police itself. I assume you must know what happend because of this: Now, you wouldn't want a cop to see your water pipe, even if it's completely empty of any drugs. Even though you're an adult. I don't agree with these laws, but neither was I in the least bit impressed when I saw an adult sell a bong to a 10-year-old, in a store, as a legitimate transaction. I suspect that if such behavior had not taken place at all, I might still be able to go into a store, as an adult, and buy one for myself. ...in other words, I couldn't fight the drug paraphernalia laws with that kind of inertia against me. This is the same thing all over again, but what's the use if no one else sees it that way?
Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) Posted Jun 25, 2004 19:54 UTC (Fri) by RobSeace (subscriber, #4435) [Link] > People view records, CD's, DVD's videotapes, and movies as *products*,> like lamps or furniture. The actual physical CDs and DVDs and tapes, yes... But, I would disagree
Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) Posted Jun 25, 2004 20:58 UTC (Fri) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] It doesn't FEEL like any sort of real-world crime... And why the hell should it FEEL like real-world crime? It's perfectly natural thing to do after all... While I do not always agree with RMS here he's alsolutely right. In other words, when the public is challenged to show why publishers should not receive some additional power, the most important reason of all -- "We want to copy" -- is disqualified in advance. If you'll think about it he's 100% right. People do want to copy. That's the whole reason any DRM will fail and any protection will be circumvented.
Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) Posted Jun 26, 2004 12:23 UTC (Sat) by ccchips (guest, #3222) [Link] Then why not copy what people are offering to copy, instead of taking RIAA material? There are PLENTY of musicians around who are perfectly happy for us to copy, and often even re-distribute, their work.That's actually the main point I've been trying to get across all this time: that we'd be far better off to support *them*, so the RIAA will then lose all its power.
Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) Posted Jun 27, 2004 7:59 UTC (Sun) by piman (subscriber, #8957) [Link] But supporting independent labels and artists does not require passing any kind of laws against P2P networks; it requires (at best) copyright laws, and definitely ones looser than the existing ones. It might not even require that. What you're talking about is totally orthogonal to the actual issue of the bill.
Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) Posted Jun 28, 2004 15:21 UTC (Mon) by ccchips (guest, #3222) [Link] No, it's not. As long as people are permitted to copy and distribute movies and music, there will be abuse. These crazy politicians are trying to stop that abuse by creating a hostile climate for copying, and this I do *not* agree with, because there are far too many legitimate reasons to have that ability, even for movies and music. I oppose this bill.BUT, I also have serious doubts that this kind of bill will be stopped, if maqssive numbers of people continue to copy and then distribute materials from companies which the RIAA represent, and which did not give permission to copy. I cannot understand why people who are so well-versed in the world of Free software, as yourselves, don't understand or agree with my point, which is that we, as leaders in the movement toward freedom, should encourage others to move *away* from RIAA-backed and prohibitive entities, and favor entities which are not prohibitive. I sincerely believe that such efforts will help to quell the political movement that appears to want to ban P2P networks and copying. Even Richard Stallman, when talking about copying software, shuns the idea of copying proprietary software for 2 reasons (1) it aggravates the makers of that software into becoming more restrictive, and (2) it spreads proprietary software around, thus encouraging people to use it. He would rather see people copy free software, and distribute it, while at the same time encouraging others to do so. Why wouldn't this same principle apply to music and movies?
Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) Posted Jun 28, 2004 15:50 UTC (Mon) by RobSeace (subscriber, #4435) [Link] > I cannot understand why people who are so well-versed in the world of Free> software, as yourselves, don't understand or agree with my point, which is > that we, as leaders in the movement toward freedom, should encourage others > to move *away* from RIAA-backed and prohibitive entities, and favor > entities which are not prohibitive. I don't think I saw anyone disagree with this point... I think it's probably > I sincerely believe that such efforts will help to quell the political Now, THIS I think many people might disagree with... I think you're just
Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) Posted Jun 28, 2004 17:15 UTC (Mon) by ccchips (guest, #3222) [Link] Much food for thought here....good analysis.I will apply my energy toward fighting these kinds of laws, and toward encouraging my friends and neighbors to look at alternative sources of entertainment that are more free. Eliminate the negative, IOW.
Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) Posted Jul 2, 2004 4:20 UTC (Fri) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] Great analysis! That really explain difference between RIAA and MPAA positions: new draconian laws are "the last hope" for RIAA while MPAA can exist without them. Why so ? Movies can not be created for cheap. You need a lot of stuff to create good movie. Not $100 millions for sure but not $10'000 either. And you can not return all this without help of some distributors thus movie creators will seek help of MPAA for foreseable future. RIAA on the other hand is obsolete already: $$ needed to produce good music can be raised by concerts and donations (you do not need super-high-end hardware to do succesefull song if you have something in head). If you'll remove (and I mean totally) any sales of CDs today there still will be enough musicants to fill the void (yes, some will be ruined but it'll be minority!) So while MPAA can survive with appropriate change in direction RIAA can not. And they will find a way to harass everyone till they'll run out of power - and it does not matter if you are doing something illegal today or not. They'll find a way to make you criminal tomorrow.
Senate bill bans P2P networks (News.com) Posted Jun 26, 2004 15:22 UTC (Sat) by XERC (guest, #14626) [Link] I understand,that if I were living in the U.S., then I should alsoget a premission to distribute my own creations, specially, if it infridges some software patent or other totally trival patent. Would you hate me too for distributing music without premission,
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