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RE: Toward a new kind of 'Linux distribution'

From:  Jamie Katz <jamie-AT-continentalbooks.com>
To:  imurdock-AT-progeny.com, LWN Letters <letters-AT-lwn.net>
Subject:  RE: Toward a new kind of 'Linux distribution'
Date:  Sat, 28 Feb 2004 20:46:53 -0500

I really like the concept of "a componentized distribution."
(http://www.newsforge.com/technology/04/02/25/1548203.shtml) Here are a
few thoughts that may help flesh out the idea more.
 
In the Windows and Mac worlds, you buy (or pirate or "try") one bit of
software at a time. So, to take one example, if you are a web developer,
you get Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro for images, Homesite or BBedit or
Dreamweaver for HTML editing, Cute FTP or Transmit for uploading, and
maybe a few utilities, like some image-map maker.
 
A Linux "componentized distribution" for web-dev could give you:
 
* local Apache with the ability to easily set it up to mirror the setup
of the eventual live server in all important ways (i.e., mod-Perl or
not, mySQL or not, PHP with globals on or not etc)
 
* Konqorer with GUI, fully-integrated SSH wizards to connect to servers
 
* Quanta with default settings to open/save to the correct dirs
 
* Ditto the GIMP
 
* If a "work as a group" option is selected on install, the whole thing
could be CVS driven over a network, with the lan webserver running from
1 designated machine (i.e., the install CD would be passed around, and
would auto-detect the network-setup that the 1st user did)
 
* Pref files for apps would be consistent, and would be made easy to
access and easy to exchange with co-workers (this would make the whole
team use the same default DOCTYPES, same JPG compression, same shh
passwords, same templates, etc.
 
* Documentation would have centralized links to the relevent docs, and
an overview specific for this mini-distro, with a description of
workflow, desired output, arguments in favor of doing things their way.
 
This would be like a "meta-package" but with a bigger emphasis on
configuration, "workgroup" integration, and workflow, so it would be
more of a small distro. Ideally, you'd be able to install it onto any
distro. (Really, the whole thing is just a few docs, a list of programs,
and specific pref settings.)
 
One group's web-dev mini-distro/meta-package could emphasize a process:
planning to graphic design, to copy writing, to PHP coding, to HTML
integration, to testing. Another group could create a competing web-dev
mini-distro/meta-package centered around extreme programming. Yet
another could emphasize J2EE integration or some crap. To say nothing of
those who'd want to push Bluefish over Quanta or Zeus over Apache or...
 
No users would care if anything was GNOME or KDE because the integration
would be geared towards specific real-world tasks, not toward the
romantic vision of an integrated EVERYTHING. Right now, in the Linux
world too, this kind of apps collection and configuration is left to the
user. No distro is set up like this out of the box (maybe MOVIX? or
DEMUNDI? But these seem to be trying to be self-contained...). A lot of
energy is spent by users figuring out a good workflow and a good set of
apps; figuring out optimal and integrated configuration; and figuring
out how to easily mirror settings throughout a group of collaborators.
And people who are experts in making great graphic designs may not know
that FTP is insecure, or may not feel comfortable getting a webserver
running -- in other words, many people end up with sub-optimal tools.
Much of the best work of finding these solutions is not freely and
easily distributed.
 
Adobe and Macromedia are sort of trying to sell groups of expensive
integrated programs to handle everything in web development, but they
feel like awful kludges, and key components are missing or are weird
proprietary half-measures.
 
In Linux, we have key components for various tasks that are more than
"good enough" -- we should be able to create several radically different
complete solutions for various tasks -- not just web development, but
music creation, accounting, researching and writing academic papers,
selling a warehouse of widgets, or teaching english as a second language
to 4th graders. But for god's sake, don't include these things in the
latest Slackware ISO!
 
-Jamie Katz


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RE: Toward a new kind of 'Linux distribution'

Posted Mar 4, 2004 10:36 UTC (Thu) by flewellyn (subscriber, #5047) [Link]

I think what you're looking for can be called "Gentoo". :-)

RE: Toward a new kind of 'Linux distribution'

Posted Mar 4, 2004 11:28 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Hardly.

You have to have the whole portage tree no matter what, and it's getting pretty big (>500Mb).

This rules out gentoo on one machine I use Linux on (it's a small laptop with disk space shared with Windows, and no network card: the whole distro must fit into 200Mb of disk space. Debian fits: Gentoo surely doesn't.

Admittedly, this is not Gentoo's *fault* as such; it's not meant as a small-system distro. But a properly componentized distro would work in this situation, I like to think.)

RE: Toward a new kind of 'Linux distribution'

Posted Mar 4, 2004 14:50 UTC (Thu) by pointwood (subscriber, #2814) [Link]

I could imagine it wouldn't be too difficult for the Gentoo developers to add that if they wanted to.

RE: Toward a new kind of 'Linux distribution'

Posted Mar 6, 2004 1:55 UTC (Sat) by hazelsct (subscriber, #3659) [Link]

Debian's tasksel is an attempt at what you're describing. But in a distributed project like Debian, the number and size of tasks has expanded to a point that rendered it nearly meaningless.

How do Progeny's "components" go beyond Debian's "tasks"? And if I'm installing from the net on a machine with more than 8 GB of hard drive space anyway, why do I care whether I can select small components as "sub-distributions," instead of having the whole 13,000-package strong Debian distribution available?

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