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The Grumpy Editor's browser review - a followup
The review of Gecko-based browsers we ran
last week generated a great deal of feedback; this is evidently an area of
great interest to many users. We have just a few things to add to that
review this time around.
Thanks primarily to reader comments, your editor was able to resolve almost all of his complaints with the Firefox browser. Image animation can be controlled via the user-hostile about:config screen, the prefs.js file found in a randomly-named directory under ~/.phoenix, or via plugin extensions. Antialiased fonts are to be had by downloading the correct version of the browser. And so on. The situation has improved to the point where your editor is now using Firefox as his preferred browser. The real key to the success of Firefox may well prove to be its extension architecture. History has shown many times that, if an application provides an easy mechanism for users to graft in additional or different functionality, those users will run with it. The lengthy list of extensions available for Firefox shows that this browser has reached a critical mass in this regard. Extensions are available to provide all kinds of navigation tools, to help with weblogging, to assist in web page authoring, and many other tasks including, inevitably, playing Tetris. It would be nice not to have to go find an extension to replace the missing "up" navigation button, but it's nice that you can. One can only hope that the security implications of encouraging users to download and install browser plugins have been thought through. If last week's review were to be written today, the conclusion might have been written a little differently. Firefox has a level of performance, reliability, and features that well exceeds the other Gecko-based browsers available. One might well wonder why Galeon and Epiphany continue to exist; they appear to be trying to do the same thing as Firefox but - at this moment in time, anyway - they do it less reliably and with fewer features. (Do see, however, this posting on why Red Hat is shipping Epiphany for a different view). As we noted last week, there could well be a place for multiple browser projects, but each should be looking for a unique way to extend the state of the art. Meanwhile, your editor also found the time to get Konqueror 3.2 working. Konqueror is everything its proponents claim it is: a fast, powerful and robust tool for navigating through information, be it on the local system or on the net. Your editor has never had much use for file managers, and so does not place much value on Konqueror's implementation. He can see, however, that Konqueror does look like a very nice file manager. The web browser is capable and fast, and highly configurable. Some features, such as the ability to change the identification string to get past certain difficult web site programmers, are unique. What Konqueror still seems to be lacking, however is a password manager. Security-conscious users may feel better off without this feature, but the simple fact is that it has gotten hard to keep track of the long list of usernames and passwords needed to access many useful sites on the web. A password manager can be most useful when trying to remember which login information was used to get into some obscure site with its own strange rules. It is surprising, really, that Konqueror has not picked up this capability yet. That notwithstanding, if Konqueror were the only browser available for Linux systems, we would be in good shape. Linux is second to no other system now in the quality of its web browsing support. It will be more than interesting to see where things go from here as the various projects look for new ways to extend the state of the art. (Log in to post comments)
Password manager Posted Feb 19, 2004 3:44 UTC (Thu) by rfunk (subscriber, #4054) [Link] Konqueror 3.2 has a password manager, to the extent that it's part of KDE3.2, which now includes one. While this may not help someone not running the KDE environment (I'm not sure), it's certainly not a feature that has been overlooked or omitted.
Password manager Posted Feb 19, 2004 23:30 UTC (Thu) by lakeland (subscriber, #1157) [Link] I'm pretty sure that the password manager (kwalletmanager) doesn't needthe rest of kde.
The Grumpy Editor's browser review - a followup Posted Feb 19, 2004 3:47 UTC (Thu) by malex (subscriber, #15692) [Link] Well, Konqueror 3.2 does have a password manager of sorts. Installkwalletmanager if you are using Debian and be happy. It's main difference from other password managers is that it asks you for your master password (in mozilla-speak) every time you want it to fill in a password field on a web form. Some people will argue that it's a nuisance, but it won't bother most as you only have to remember one password. All in all, despite problems with some pages that Gecko handles and konqueror does not this is subjectively the best browser at the moment. Cheers, Alex.
The Grumpy Editor's browser review - a followup Posted Feb 19, 2004 4:06 UTC (Thu) by AdHoc (subscriber, #1115) [Link] Actually, in my experience you only have to provide the master password the first time kwallet starts up, which is fairly optimal in my view. This is probably a configurable setting.One of the best features of Konq is the spellchecker in web forms. Awesome for webmail (not posting from konq, so excuse any errors :) cheers, ps - Still anxiously awaiting a write up on the future and direction of Xfree86 and associated forks/projects etc. Though I can see the difficulty with the ever evolving situation (now with the license issue), and the seeming unavailabily of some of the key players for comment (I've heard Dawes is hard to get ahold of, though haven't tried personally)
The Grumpy Editor's browser review - a followup Posted Feb 19, 2004 8:41 UTC (Thu) by xyz (subscriber, #504) [Link] The kwallet has an option to configure its behaviour, you can choose toask for the global password once or everytime any application is used. Notice that it applies to the webbrowser as well as to other services: ftp, ssh, etc. Impressive and effective. :-)
Mozilla missed the boat Posted Feb 19, 2004 7:50 UTC (Thu) by Dom2 (guest, #458) [Link] The trouble with all the mozilla browsers is that even though they provide extensions, they're not emacs. That is to say, you can't interactively develop in them with on line help available for all the XPCOM components that you're likely to use. If mozilla had made that available, then we'd really see a plethora of browser extensions!-Dom
Mozilla missed the boat Posted May 14, 2004 9:51 UTC (Fri) by arafel (subscriber, #18557) [Link] > The trouble with all the mozilla browsers is that even though they provide> extensions, they're not emacs. Some (myself included) would regard that as a feature. ;-)
The Grumpy Editor's browser review - a followup Posted Feb 19, 2004 8:37 UTC (Thu) by dlang (subscriber, #313) [Link] did you ever do a speed comparison between Firefox and Konqueror?
a limitation of the Konqueror? Posted Feb 19, 2004 8:47 UTC (Thu) by mmarkov (subscriber, #4978) [Link] I forced my mozilla to use dark gray backgroundand yellow text with Edit -> Preferences -> Appearance -> Colours. That is, every web page is displayed yellow-on-dark gray, ignoring the page's colour settings. However, tt seems impossible to force Konqueror into
forcing Konq colors Posted Feb 19, 2004 17:18 UTC (Thu) by rfunk (subscriber, #4054) [Link] You can force Konqueror to use the colors you want: go to the stylesheetsarea in settings, tell it to use the "accessibility stylesheet defined in the Customize tab", then set your colors in the Customize tab.
a limitation of the Konqueror? -> Use the CSS options Posted Feb 20, 2004 6:39 UTC (Fri) by Duncan (guest, #6647) [Link] I was just going to point out what RFUNK said, for an in-browser method ofconfiguring color preferences. However, for my purposes, that does seem to leave a bit to be desired. I haven't tried the option in Mozilla to the point I know how it works, but I don't see that it could fully satisfy my needs, either. Here's the situation. In general, I prefer light text on dark (white on black, by default), as you mention. However, I do NOT want that to mean that areas colored differently on the original page as delivered by the server end up all the SAME color (default white on black) as rendered my my browser. If the served page has an area of red text, I want it to be red. If it has a red background with X color text, I want the background to STILL be red, preferably with the served text color, as long as said text color is then readable, of course. A good example of the desirability for such a complex ruleset would be the cached pages offered by Google, which normally hilite search terms. If ALL color is converted, it's far harder to see the search terms amongst all that text (tho they do still get BOLDED, from my experience, unless that's been turned off as well). More common examples would include LWN itself, with the various parts of the page, and elements such as quotes, set off in their own colors. (At least LWN allows customization, tho..) The biggest problem I've found, isn't that authors set specific colors, tho that may indeed be irritating. Rather, it's that all to often they set specific colors ONLY for background or text, WRONGLY ASSUMING that every browser has THE SAME default choices they do, thus making the text contrast enough with the background with only one specifically set, as to be visible. Of course, in addition to the ordinary color settings, there's also the issue of pages where images are used to set the background color, when images may be turned off in the user's browser. In my experience, coping with complexity such as this, where I want SOME colors changed but not ALL of them, is something a simple one-size-fits-all preferences solution can't handle, no matter HOW good it might be otherwise. Something else is needed. For me, that "something else" has been personal proxies. Back on MSWormOS, I used "The Proxomitron", and it was one of my worst missed tools when I switched to Linux. I even contemplated attempting to run it in WINE, or getting VMWare Express (no longer offered, last I checked) to run it in. However, I eventually found Privoxy, and now run that. Save for The Proxomitron's ability to use OpenSSL and etc. to filter secure pages, Privoxy, with its pcre based regular expressions, is advanced enough to generally fill my needs quite well. I've developed quite a selection of filtering rules designed to take any text to dark and make it lighter, and any background to light and make it darker, all the while still maintaining the center ground and strong colors such as red, as they are. For quite some time, nearly every time I ran into a page that didn't render to my satisfaction, I invested some time into designing a filter that would "fix" it. That doesn't happen very often any more, and when it does, I can usually tweak a current filter slightly and fix it. Nearly all pages now render as desired transparently, converting colors to something personally tolerable on the fly. Duncan
a limitation of the Konqueror? -> Use the CSS options Posted Feb 20, 2004 23:40 UTC (Fri) by EricBackus (guest, #2816) [Link] Wow, you have nearly the same preferences that I do. My personal preference is "wheat" text on "gray10" background, and I frequently run into pages that specify a white background but no foreground, making the page nearly illegible. Could you make your privoxy filters available? They sound like a great solution to this.
Privoxy filters for light on dark.. Posted Feb 22, 2004 18:57 UTC (Sun) by Duncan (guest, #6647) [Link] > Could you make your privoxy filters available?Note that I'd never bothered putting up a page until you asked about that, so I just hacked up something simple, pretty much specifically for the purpose. There's a Linux-topical pix there as well that I just had to save when I saw it, and now that I have a new site to put it on.. <g> Anyway, I get to thank you for being the one that gave me that extra nudge to get me started, tho others had nudged b4 but it wasn't quite enough. <g> There are a couple other filters I found useful with Konqueror, anyway, in the file as well. I -vv-ed the comment verbosity for public consumption, so it should all be explained there. If not, contact info is in the file. Duncan
The Grumpy Editor's browser review - a followup Posted Feb 19, 2004 8:54 UTC (Thu) by pointwood (subscriber, #2814) [Link] I've been using KDE3.2 for a little while now and KWallet have worked pretty well for me. It's nicely integrated into the KDE environment. Though you can run Konqueror without using KDE as your desktop environment, I wouldn't personally do that. Since the various parts of KDE is made to work well together and depends a lot on eachother, you will often miss a lot of the power if you don't run the complete environment. It's a tradeoff but it's not a surprising one. This tradeoff will probably get smaller as the various freedesktop.org "standards" gets implemented.In regards to KWallet, a quick search on google found this presentation by George Staikos: It's a bit old though, but I don't think that much have changed since then. I also found The KWallet Handbook: http://docs.kde.org/en/HEAD/kdeutils/kwallet/index.html
The Grumpy Editor's browser review - a followup Posted Feb 19, 2004 11:29 UTC (Thu) by duck (subscriber, #4444) [Link] Hello,the really very nice thing about Konqueror as a file manager is the kio-slave concept. It allows for example to enter smb:/ as an URL, and you find yourself browsing your windows network, and if you set the default username and password correctly, you can even connect to the shares. Then open another browser (or split the view), and enter fish:/username@someSSHserver and you log into a Server using ssh. The beauty is that dragging and dropping between the two windows just works - and this is not limited to these two protocols. What does that mean? Well, of course you can mount smb-shares by hand (as root if no fstab entry exists), and then copy things via scp from the mounted smb-share to a server running sshd. But if you administrating a mixed network, the browsing capability of smb networks is VERY helpful. Of course you can have an ftp:/ connection as well, or rip directly from an audio CD to a remote windows share and so on. The number of supported protocols is amazing. You can also construct your preferred administrator view (like one ssh connection, one smb connection and the network overview) and save these settings to a profile. Then you create a shortcut on your desktop to open Konqueror with this specific profile. The annoying thing about konqueror is that it still does not render all Websites correctly. So I personally work most of the time with konqueror, and fire up mozilla if I need it.
The Grumpy Editor's browser review - a followup Posted Feb 19, 2004 12:56 UTC (Thu) by gerv (subscriber, #3376) [Link] Some features, such as the ability to change the identification string to get past certain difficult web site programmers, are unique [to Konqueror]. There are several extensions for both Mozilla and (AFAIAA) Firefox which provide this feature. It's built into the Evangelism sidebar, and there's a dedicated User Agent Toolbar too. Gerv
The Grumpy Editor's browser review - a followup Posted Feb 19, 2004 20:23 UTC (Thu) by oak (subscriber, #2786) [Link] And of course Opera support identification string. I think even some text mode browsers do that...
The Grumpy Editor's browser review - a followup Posted Feb 19, 2004 20:46 UTC (Thu) by smeg4brains (subscriber, #207) [Link] ....and there's a plugin for firefox...
The Grumpy Editor's browser review - a followup Posted Feb 19, 2004 17:21 UTC (Thu) by tjc (subscriber, #137) [Link] Linux is second to no other system now in the quality of its web browsing support.Quite a different situation than it was five years ago, when Netscape 4.x was the only viable browser. I used to keep a collection of scripts in ~/bin to kill netscape, remove lock files, etc. The only respite was I used the KDE 1.0 file manager (kfm?) to read LWN. :-) I always think of the browser situation when I hear someone say "Linux will never succeed on the desktop because it doesn't have [whatever]." Just check back in a couple years. Linux will have [whatever], and Windows will still suck.
Feedback Posted Feb 19, 2004 21:17 UTC (Thu) by gleef (guest, #1004) [Link] An excellent followup. I wish more journalists would read their article's feedback and accept it as graciously and constructively. Kudos to you and LWN.
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