Costs. [LWN.net]

Costs.

Posted Aug 2, 2002 5:00 UTC (Fri) by Inoshiro (guest, #3070)
Parent article: Is it really The End?

Please note that this is a repeat of what was sent to letters@lwn.net. I post it here to "run it up the flag pole" and to also voice the lesser spoken side of the argument. Many people have said they will subscribe, few have said cut costs. I suggest they attack the other side fo the cost equation.

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Hi, guys. I've read your site for a long time, and I've donated. However, I think 3,000$ USD per month per person is really, really high. I do agree with making money with what you know, but I don't agree with your salaries. I will not be donating any more money to you partially because I make 137$ USD a week, and require all my money to live, partially because I think you could get by with 1,000$ a month salary and be reasonable).

With 25,000, you are able to run for 1.6666(..) months. A site like Kuro5hin can run for 6 months. I could live for a little over a year in comparative luxury.

If the money is too low, do what I do. Have a Real Job (TM) and continue to do LWN as a hobby. It can pay like no other hobby does, and it does well to itself. In the future, when there is a large enough subscription base that even your most pesimistic numbers give you more money than you know how to spend, that might be a good time to switch to living off of LWN.

I'm not saying don't make money, and I'm not saying that I reject you because you want to make money, but I question your motives if you work on LWN only for money. Job loyalty and loyalty to subscribers/readers is something I consider important from the people behind a site I read.

If this grew out of a hobby, why is it so hard to have it go back to hobby status (not entirely true as you could still make money, just not boatloads of it, on the side)?

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Costs.

Posted Aug 2, 2002 6:17 UTC (Fri) by percy (guest, #3073) [Link]

$3,000 per month per person is nothing. Please note that they mentioned the magic word "health insurance", which is a very necessary evil. Of the $3k, 1/2 to 1/3 actually ends up getting paid in salary while the rest goes to benefits such as health insurance and the like. Assuming that each person, after health insurance, gets $1,500, that would mean that they are making $18,000/year gross. Try paying a mortgage, feeding the family, paying utilities, making a car payment, etc... with $1,500 a month *before taxes*.

In all reality, $3,000 a month still represents a large sacrifice on the part of the LWN staff.

Perhaps a move would help.

Posted Aug 3, 2002 0:40 UTC (Sat) by Inoshiro (guest, #3070) [Link]

Canada is much cheaper to live in. With the money supplied, they could live like kings. If they want tropical weather, Vancouver is very much like Seattle (they are spitting distances from each other).

Costs of living

Posted Aug 2, 2002 13:35 UTC (Fri) by pm101 (subscriber, #3011) [Link]

This is primarily for the foreign readers (not for the LWN staff).

$3000 per month is not a lot in the US. I rent a room in an old,
broken-down apartment in Cambridge, MA. That's $525 a month. If I had a
family, I'd need the whole apartment. That's $2100/month. Food runs me
about $10/day, and I eat fairly cheap compared to most other graduate
students. You can scale that appropriately for a family. Having a car costs
a few thousand a year for insurance, in addition to the costs of gasoline,
buying a new one every 10 years, etc. In most parts of the US, there is
not enough public transportation to survive without a car. Add to that
clothing, medical costs, occasional entertainment, etc., and you run into
a heck of a lot of money.

Also, compare the opportunity cost of running LWN; how much less money they
make than in a normal job. A competent programmer in the US will make on
the order of $5,000 per month. A good programmer will make about
$8,000-9,000 per month.

The last thing to remember is the estimate is for the total cost of
LWN. That includes insurance, taxes, and other expenses. Usually, total
labor costs run about twice salary, so $3000/month/employee would come to
considerably less than $2000/month/employee salary. In many parts of the
US, that's not close to enough to raise a family on.

I was born in Eastern Europe, and I understand US salaries seem outragously
large compared to the second and third world. But costs of living and
expenses are much, much higher as well. Trust me when I say that the
salaries the LWN staff are requesting right now are very minimalistic by
US standards.

I'm glad you replied.

Posted Aug 3, 2002 0:46 UTC (Sat) by Inoshiro (guest, #3070) [Link]

I know you've had some econ at some point if you mention opprotunity costs :)

But you seem to miss the point that I said they should get day jobs, and just do this on the side.

Granted, costs can be more in the US, but consider North Dakota. $6,000 there is like $10,000 in many other states. I mean, it's great to have your cake and eat it too. Use the internet to live where it's cheap, but get money from the better paying parts of the world.

My father lives in Hawaii, and I visited him last year. Costs there are moderately higher (raw #s wise) and that accounts for shipping. The tourist areas are outrageously expensive, though :) Much like your appartment sounds, which is a matter of the density of universities and colleges in Boston (I visited there last year as well, nice place).

Even if you don't live in Canada, you can reap some of the benefits of living near Canada. The MPAA has artificial price restrictions on DVDs. A DVD which is 20$ USD in the US is 20$ CDN in Canada. This makes importing very nice, especially if you're not to pikcy about declaring things (even then, there are minimum limits you can always stay under).

So there are many ways they could still reduce costs. If I'm going to support LWN further, I want more transparency on their accounting so I can vote with my money on what I agree and don't agree with.