Suddenly, competition is in (Haaretz) [LWN.net]

Suddenly, competition is in (Haaretz)

Posted Jan 7, 2004 23:46 UTC (Wed) by eyal (subscriber, #949) [Link]

If you read this article and didn't really understand what's the point of it - don't worry there's nothing wrong with you. I read it in the original language (Hebrew), which is still better than the English translation, and I'm still not sure what point the reporter is trying to make...

One moment he says that the Ministry of Finance started investing in OpenOffice localization 18 months ago, the next moment he says that now the MoF uses Open Office just as a PR stunt. (I wish the MoF, or any other of the Israeli ministries, would be sophisticated enough for such long term tricks - they aren't.)

Then one moment he criticizes the MoF for enjoying extremely low prices on M$ products, then next moment he criticizes the MoF for not publishing a tender. (I wonder what the point of such tender would be - who else besides M$ can supply M$ software?)

I think the truth is that now with Open Office full Hebrew support (and usable Hebrew support on Linux GUIs is also on the horizon), Israeli customers have a leverage on M$.

But I think this more than just leverage to get a better deal from M$. The vast majority of civil servants use only basic features of Word and Excel. All the governmental system are on mainframes and most of the day desktop PCs are just used as dumb terminals to the MFs.

I think that a switch to Linux + GUI + Open Office + Terminal Emulation can serve perfectly well on at least 50% of public sector desktops. Same is true by the way for the banking and insurance sectors.

I do hope that both the publicity and actual use of Open Source and Free Software in the government will signal application developers that they need to develop for Linux as well. It's about time we feel the blessed influence of Open Source and Free Software here in Israel.

EZ.

Suddenly, competition is in (Haaretz)

Posted Jan 8, 2004 1:09 UTC (Thu) by cbo (guest, #10418) [Link]

What came out clear to me in the article is that Linux is a tool to get better prices from M$. The aurthor then turns around and says that Linux can't meet the needs of the Isreali ministries which is a lot of FUD(!#$%). He then concludes that the Ministry will eventually end up using M$ software in 2007 because Linux will never be good enough.

Some people just don't understand the GNU/Linux community. They don't understand the software that exists and how they can benefit from it. I think that Linux will continue to mature and grow. It will continue to get attention and it will gain more support from software and hardware vendors. When enough software and hardware vendors make linux software it will be an easy choice to replace windows for Linux. However, by that time every piece of data on your computer will be own by M$ and enforced by their EULA. That is if you continued to invest in linux.

"Just a Ploy" PLOY

Posted Jan 8, 2004 1:02 UTC (Thu) by AnswerGuy (subscriber, #1256) [Link]

I am getting sick of hearing that these moves by the Isrealis are just a ploy. Ironically this sounds like a new, subtle form of FUD. I'll refer to it as the "just a ploy" PLOY.

Clearly it undermines the credibility of OOo and open source software in general if we promulgate the notion that there is not real appeal and value proposition inherent in the software; that it's best used to pressure Microsoft.

How can we debunk or substantiate these claims. Clearly the officials involved would not admit to the prevarication (that would undermine their own alleged purpose). On the other had their denials are futile. If we're willing to entertain the possibility that they're telling one lie we have to admit that they would then be obligated to public support that lie with others.

Overall I think its bad journalism to make these assertions parts of the headlines. It seems reasonable to cite any credible claims (even anonymously); but only if the claims ARE CREDIBLE.

Personally I think we will see wholesale adoption of OOo (possibly OOo on MS Windows) over the next year. By the end of 2004 I think it will heat from from the current sparks and embers into a full conflagration. There are just too many dollars, yen, rubles, rupees, euros and pounds at stake in too many corners of the world.

That transition will be painful. This is an unprecented shift. It's not a "paradigm" shift by any stretch of the imagination. The paradigm is the same as transitions from Lotus 123 .DIF and Word Perfect .DOC formats; it's just that the scale is different by about 2 orders of magnitude. (The number of documents and the number of personal computers a decade or so ago compared to the 100s of millions of PCs and billions of documents).

In retrospect I think we may see that the delay in the emergence of a "paperless office" hasn't so much been a result of blind adherence to custom or any unreasoning technophobia as, perhaps, a gut level understanding that words and numbers on paper can, if all all fails, be re-typed.

Perhaps the establishment of truly open and stable file formats will finallly allow us to make real progress in that arena.

Jim

"Just a Ploy" PLOY

Posted Jan 8, 2004 1:50 UTC (Thu) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link]

Actually, I see it a bit differently. People who see talk of adopting free software as a tactic for negotiating better prices from Microsoft are implicitly acknowledging that free software is good enough to make that threat credible. It's a compliment. A few years ago, nobody thought you could make Microsoft lower its prices by waving Linux around. This is a big change.

"Just a Ploy" PLOY

Posted Jan 8, 2004 8:22 UTC (Thu) by eyal (subscriber, #949) [Link]

There's another angle to this, which I didn't want to involve in the first post, but maybe it will make things a bit clearer.

There's some politics involved here, and with all due respect to M$ in this regard, it's not to do with them. The news media in Israel (like in most other democracies) is left wing oriented, only in Israel news items very often border on plain propaganda for certain ideas.

In particula the media HATES the current Finance Minister (Benjamin Netanyahu). They bash everything he and the MoF do regardless of any merit their actions might have and without minimal journalistic standards. For example, some reproters bash him for not doing something, but when he does they bash for doing it.

I'm not a supporter of the Finance minister, the Ministry or the current government - they aren't particulary better or worse than any of the previous governments. I am however very disappointed with the media in Israel. I'm sure there are some exceptions but most journalists just can't avoid abusing their position for promoting their own political agendas.

In perspective, that journalist is not against Linux or in favor of M$. I suspect he might be even on "our" side. However that won't stop him from playing the popular journalistic sport of bashing the MoF never mind the facts.

I have pointed out the inherent contradictions in the article, and there are a few more, especially if you consider additional relevant information that was NOT given in the article (eg. that the Ministry of Labor is in the process of switching hundreds of desktops to Open Office).

So, overall the article isn't against Linux and it's not some clever form of FUD from M$. It's just a confused, pointless article motivated by reasons not related to Linux.

However, as most PR people would testify, even bad PR is PR. That article wasn't even bad PR for Open Source and Free Software, so it does contribute to the general perception that M$ got a blow and Linux and Open Office are becoming a standard part of the IT landscape.

Eyal.

"Just a Ploy" PLOY

Posted Jan 8, 2004 16:17 UTC (Thu) by tjc (guest, #137) [Link]

I am however very disappointed with the media in Israel. I'm sure there are some exceptions but most journalists just can't avoid abusing their position for promoting their own political agendas.

More to point, I don't know if I've ever read an article on Haaretz that wasn't a vehicle for promoting someone's agenda, or written in such a way so as to deceive the uninformed. They're a couple of notches up from US grocery store tabloids.

As a US reader I find JPost to be a much more balanced publication, but I may be missing some things since I live on the other side of the world apart from Israeli society.

"Just a Ploy" PLOY ? Maybe.

Posted Jan 12, 2004 10:35 UTC (Mon) by guybar (subscriber, #798) [Link]

I believe that the jury is still out on this. It may be that there are people in the Israelly MoF which are genuinely convinced that the MS Monopoly is hurting Israel's economy.
(Contrary to popular oppinion, IMHO there are some sharp, well-meaning people in the MoF. Not that they can always have an affect under the existing political and beurocratic constraints.)

However: There are, TTBOMK, no wide-scale adoption, or even explicit plans (in contrast to wishes or declarations) of adoption of OS solutions in Israel's public sector.

This, I believe, should be the indicator for a genuine change in the Israel's administration's priorities.

One should reiterate, however, that it is not at all certain that the MoF will be able to enact such changes even if its decision makers are convinced it's the right thing to do. Israel's beurocracy can have immense inertia, and our politicians and public sector are no more immune to the influence of money than in other democracies.

Update

Posted Jan 8, 2004 11:36 UTC (Thu) by eyal (subscriber, #949) [Link]

It seems that M$ responds to the threat from Open Office and Linux...

A recent update in the Israeli media reveals a letter from the Israeli M$ office to the MoF. In the letter M$ offers to lower prices by means of "fine tuning" the software bundle they offer to each government office. The letter also calls for a meeting of MoF representatives with the VP of M$ Europe for "discussing the options of the government".

Previosuly the deal was, more or less, all of M$ stuff for a fixed $177 per seat per year. This included not only the workstation side but also the server parts (eg. Exchangle, SQL) as well. Now M$ is saying "maybe you don't need all our stuff so there's room for discounts".

There was another report, a few days ago, that M$ unofficialy offered that government offices report lower number of seats than they really have, in order to lower total cost. This would have been a smart move on M$ given the uphill battle ahead: On the one hand the customer (governemnt) is in a vulnerable position as it's always in a breach of contract. On the other hand M$ doesn't lower prices, which usually invites another round of discount pressures from the business sector and maybe other governments.

Apparently the offer was turned down, which I think is a real pitty. If it were to work this way, then M$ would have no legal basis to demend anyone actually pay for their products: if they allow the government to pirate, no judge in his/her right mind would ever convict any other user for doing the same.

Of course M$ denied it ever hinted at such a direction, but this last update shows that M$ is under pressue and exploring ways of lowering the price. In an ideal world I'd be really happy that my taxes are better utilized, but I know the money will just go to some other redundant public spending. It's half comfort at least that M$ will get much less of it.

Eyal.