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Is it really The End?

Last week, we stated that, due to lack of anything even close to the amount of money needed to pay the LWN staff, the publication of the LWN.net Weekly Edition would end on August 1. Since then, quite a few things have happened, including:

  • We had honestly thought that donations would drop to zero (they were already close) once the announcement went out. Instead, they shot through the ceiling; as of this writing, we have received over $25,000 in new donations and advertising! Many came with notes saying "back payment for the last four years," or "use this to throw a big party."

    It is still difficult to express our surprise and gratitude for this unbelievable show of generosity on the part of our readers. You people are the best.

  • A number of companies, or people with contacts in companies, have approached us with the possibility of some sort of sponsorship for LWN. Many of these contacts, frankly, were self-serving and would turn LWN into something that would be rather less appealing to our readers. But a few seem serious. It will take some time, however, before we know if there is any funding to be had in that direction or not.

These developments have caused us to rethink our plans in a way we honestly had not expected. Here is a summary of where we are at.

$25,000 is a nice pile of cash for a little company to have in the bank, but it is important to keep in mind that it is not enough to keep us going for all that long. Running LWN currently involves five people (Jonathan Corbet: front and Kernel pages, site code, "executive editor"; Forrest Cook: Development and Press pages, system administration; Rebecca Sobol: Distributions and Commerce pages; Dennis Tenney: Security page and corporate bureaucracy; Dave Whitinger: business development, ad sales and delivery), all of whom are experienced software engineers. These people have children and mortgages, and most work full time producing LWN. They can not be expected to do it for free, even though that is exactly what they have been doing for some months now.

So the LWN staff needs things like salaries and health insurance. A minimal amount of money to provide these for the current staff is about $15,000 per month - and that level will still likely lead to loss of staff eventually. But it is a starting figure to aim for.

All of our estimates on possible subscription revenue fell far below that amount. The numbers came out of gnumeric, after all, they had to be true... and besides, none of our projected numbers have ever turned out to be too conservative in the past. It was on this basis that we decided it was time to pull the plug.

From the donations and feedback we have gotten, we have concluded that maybe our numbers were a little too conservative, that maybe subscriptions could bring in more than we thought. As a result, we are now thinking through plans for the implementation of a subscription-based LWN. Here, in bullet form, is the core of what we are thinking:

  • Initially, the Weekly Edition would be the content that lives behind the subscription gate. Subscribers would have immediate access to the Weekly Edition when it comes out Wednesday evening; free access would be opened up later, perhaps the following Monday. We would, however, immediately start work on expanding the content available to subscribers; we have a lot of fun ideas for things we could do.

  • The rest of our current content, including the "daily updates" which now make up the front page, would remain free.

  • Certain other new features would be available to subscribers only. At the top of the list is the long-requested email delivery option for the Weekly Edition. Content in PDF format and perhaps even an option for delivery of a print version, are on the list, though they would have to come later. We are also considering setting aside a percentage of our text ad exposures for subscribers who have something to broadcast.

  • We are still working on pricing. People who have donated to LWN would be able to use their donation to obtain a subscription.

The decision to go to subscriptions is hard; restricted content is a difficult fit in the world of free software. We will certainly lose a great many readers by imposing subscriptions. But...if we go off the air, we lose all of our readers. It is also still not clear to us that subscriptions are sufficient to cover our costs. The thinking at the moment is that some sort of stable base of (presumably corporate) sponsorship will be required, along with whatever advertising revenue we can come up with. Without that base, it will be hard for us to proceed.

The end result is that we are going to take next week away from the production of LWN to think long and hard about what we are going to do, to pursue sponsorship contacts, and to hack madly on the site code to actually implement a subscription scheme. The LWN Weekly Edition will not be published next week, though a subset may be available. At the end of the week, we hope to have a plan in place that will let us move forward, and which will stop trying the patience of our many loyal readers who have been waiting for us to get our act together.

Thank you all for your overwhelming support.


(Log in to post comments)

Is it really The End? Do a survey first!

Posted Aug 1, 2002 1:24 UTC (Thu) by lonely_bear (subscriber, #2726) [Link]

A survey is needed. You need to do a survey for how many is willing to subscribe, rather than gussing the number on your own. You will never know until you do the research.

I, for one, am willing to pay for the subscription.

Is it really The End? Do a survey first!

Posted Aug 1, 2002 3:09 UTC (Thu) by virtex (subscriber, #3019) [Link]

Looking at the donations "thank you" page (http://php.lwn.net/corp/supporters.php3), there are 775 people who have donated. I'm not sure how many of these make up the $25,000 amount quoted in the article, but if we assume they all do, that works out to an average donation of about $32 each. If all these donators buy a subscription, they would each have to pay an annual price of about $232 to make up the required $180,000 per year. In order to drop this down to, say $50/year, we would need about 5 times as many subscribers as donators. Given that the average donation was $32, there may be some people not able or willing to pay that much, but with some additional money coming in from advertising and sponsorship, they may be able to drop the price a bit further.

I don't think obtaining that many subscriptions is at all unrealistic. I will definitely subscribe when it becomes available.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 4:54 UTC (Thu) by mefistofeles (guest, #3022) [Link]

The success of the subscription plan I think depends on the subscription goodies. Obvious, isn't it? You wrote that you would delay the access to the weekly edition for non-subscribers. Not enough if simply by comparing with myself. I'm not always able to read it on Thursdays and that doesn't matter at all.
You must come up with something really entising.

I would recommend staying off the dead-tree version for a long time. I'd feel that it would cost much more than you would earn on it. A PDF-version is neat though ...

Just my two Eurocents,

/M.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 6:50 UTC (Thu) by claes (guest, #2873) [Link]

I agree completely. Probably the weekly edition should only be available to subscribers. I know I would rather wait until Monday to read the free one. Not because I am cheap, more because of laziness and convenience.

Don't feel bad if you restrict content although you propagate for free software. You are doing free software a service by writing about it.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 8:04 UTC (Thu) by micro (guest, #3026) [Link]

As much as I hate to say it I agree as well. If you want to remain in business I suggest you make LWN subscription only.

After you you still have Linux Daily News people can read for free.

My concern would be that in trying to be free you could effectively compeletely disappear from the scene. It would be a shame to lose both when just losing one would suffice.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 9:48 UTC (Thu) by Mithrandir (subscriber, #3031) [Link]

Well, I disagree entirely. I hit the site about 3 times a day, and I'd never be able to wait as long as till Monday.. it'd be completely out of date wrt the pertinent events. I value the editorial opinion of the LWN crew.

Even if I could wait, I think I'd still subscribe, because I beleive that nothing comes for free and I don't want the valuable contribution that LWN.net makes to the linux community to disappear.

I'd like to have the subscription model include the option to pay for a year or so in advance, or to have the amounts debited from my credit card monthly, so I wouldn't have to worry about fiddling with the payments each month.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 15:52 UTC (Thu) by anamana (subscriber, #2787) [Link]

I agree with Mithrandir. I've donated last week and I would still be
willing to pony up a subscription price for the forthcoming content.

A good SciFi author (Heinlein) gave us the acronym TANSTAAFL - There
Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch - and we've been ignoring this
(as a community) so far. The price has been getting payed; mostly
out of the generous effort of the LWN staff. We should be shouldering
the cost of the content we are receiving.

The LWN content is far and away the best I've seen on the net. If we
want it to continue, we pay. There are enough things out there that
make us pay for dubious return; I feel we should whole-heartedly
support those things which give us great value for the priced.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 17:02 UTC (Thu) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330) [Link]

But there is such a thing as a free lunch, and most readers of LWN are using it: the Linux kernel, the GNU utilities, X, the Gnome and KDE stuff, etc (yes, most of the people doing this work have some arrangement that lets them get paid, but you, the reader of this message, are almost certainly not paying. Given that LWN covers free software, it would be hypocritical to make LWN completely subscription-only: the material would be gathered mainly by interviewing people who give away their work for free, after all.

However, the plan to delay access to non-subscribers for some time period is completely reasonable and I fully support it. This is very different from denying access to the LWN weekly edition to non-subscribers forever.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 2, 2002 8:55 UTC (Fri) by micro (guest, #3026) [Link]

True, it may be perceived to be hypocritical, but I don't believe that in actual fact it would be, but maybe that's just me.

Remember the FSF is about freedom not price. I don't see how people's freedom is limited by asking people to pay for such a service. As you rightly point out the material is (thankfully) already freely available to poeple if they want to search for it, indeed much of it would still be neatly presented on lwn.net in the daily news section. The service that we would be paying for is for someone to collate it and present it to us in such a way that it saves us time and is of interest.

People have a right to earn a living and make money. Indeed the GPL expressly allows people to make money out of free software, so long as they don't restrict the freedom of others in the process.

If LWN contained important documentation that was not available elsewhere I'd be more inclined to agree with you, but as it is, it's more like a newspaper reporting than anything else and I see nothing wrong with a subscription based system.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 3, 2002 16:45 UTC (Sat) by shakti (guest, #3101) [Link]

Make the weekly edition subscriber-only for the first week. Then, when you're publishing a new edition, make the old version public to everyone.

Is it really The End? Do a survey first!

Posted Aug 1, 2002 19:44 UTC (Thu) by robert1cole (guest, #3061) [Link]

I'm going to play the bad guy here for a min.

My home page is linuxtoday.com I get most of my info news wise from there and the links take me to places to read it that are free. Sometimes I get directed to LWN.net. Sometimes not.

Although this site is pretty well put together and all I wonder about the value of a subscription based system. There are just so many sources of news and such out there that I can never keep up with them all! I read news and stay on top of the linux world as part of running my business. Some days I spend 4 or 5 hours reading news and I STILL don't get it all.

To be honest I would probably be more likely to subscribe to linuxtoday if they went subscription based simply because they seem like a clearing house of information linking me all over the world. That's value to me because I want to know what M$ is doing and the rest of the linux world too.

I cancelled all of my paper magazine subscriptions a long time ago because the news is always out of date and I was hardly ever taking the time to read them anyway. They would sit for months then hit the trash.

Please don't flame me here this is just my opinion and views. I'm thinking that maybe everyone at LWN needs to just go out and get another job and do LWN on their spare time. Yes this will cause a decrease in content but maybe the focus of LWN could change to just reviews on hardware, software, extremely detailed howto's (very much needed I think and GENERIC ones too, not just Redhat, Suse, etc) on extremely popular topics like iptables, firewalls, detailed medusa9 or snort installation reviews, howto's. etc.

That type of focus is not so time critial and once the ball was rolling there would be new stuff pretty much every week. AND that would be something I would pay for. And LWN writers would be able to have their outside LWN job and have a little money from subscriptions to pay basic expenses like ISP/hosting costs, have a party now and again and post the pics of the fun and photocopying of butts while drunk :), etc, etc.

I guess what I'm saying is to become a source of detailed info on common and not so common howto's. And I do mean DETAILED. There isn't a clearing house of good info like this anywhere. The howto sites (tlpd, etc) just don't have what I'm talking about here. How about an example. I could contribute this one even... I looked and looked and googled and googled and couldn't find good info on chroot jailing named. I wanted to setup named in a highly restrictive chroot jail environment. Before you tell me all the places I can get that info let me assure you I went to all of them and many different places looking for a concise and CLEAR way to do this. Well I ended up using about 3 different sources and a bit of my own know how and a week or so later I had it done. In the end it was a rather simple process but because the howto's were so spacific to THEIR distro it made things EXTREMELY difficult because the howto's simply didn't work or apply.

I've found this problem with just about every howto out there. There are exceptions of course but many/most are just not very useful if at all. A focus on things like Medusa9, Snort, Freeswan, iptables/firewall's, various email apps, Linux as a desktop and all the goodies. Bringing all these sorts of things under one site would be a boon to many.

The most useful sources of how to set things up has been thru articles, not howto's. Linuxplanet is a good example of a place I go for how to get things going. I'm like many people I learn best by seeing something work first then go backwards in learning the extreme ins and outs. I'm not been very successful reading the manual/man page and getting a complex program to work the way I wanted it to. I learn by examples/sample configs, etc.

Anyway I've been long winded enough... These are just my thoughts...

Robert

Subscription payment methods

Posted Aug 2, 2002 5:53 UTC (Fri) by ringerc (subscriber, #3071) [Link]

You're not the only one willing to pay for LWN. I'll gladly subscribe given the chance. I live in Australia, however - so payment options can be tricky.

This is one of the big problems with reader-pays site models - arranging convenient, inexpensive (ie low fee / overhead) international payments.

Something to be aware of - not all your readers are in the USA or even Europe.

two suggestions

Posted Aug 2, 2002 12:41 UTC (Fri) by slimy (guest, #2695) [Link]


my two thoughts:

- take credit-card details and all information to process subscription but don't process any unless you get enough to float for the years worth of subscription.

- you still need to encourage new subscribers: after the weekly news has been viewed by subscribers publish one or two of the most popular articles as teasers to encourage others to join.

the kernel development article is in my opinion the best of lwn, it is a wonderful contribution to the linux community.

best wishes lwn xxx

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 1:48 UTC (Thu) by mjstrom (subscriber, #1012) [Link]

Just a suggestion, some sort of membership drive might be in order for when subscriptions go live. Post a page about how many subscriptions you are aiming for and how many you have to date.

And offering different levels of subscriptions might be good too. Such as the "buy this week's edition" via paypal for a small amount to X months to a year via credit card sort of thing.

And set realistic levels of funding. You guys do a good job and desire to make a decent living at it.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 20:13 UTC (Thu) by Soruk (guest, #2722) [Link]

I for one will get a subscription. But I like the previous poster's idea... of buying a single edition via a small PayPal payment. Maybe a page (for free) showing the headlines of the articles in the weekly edition, might entice more people who choose not to subscribe to use the "buy one" option.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 2:07 UTC (Thu) by jcurious (guest, #2845) [Link]

sign me up ;)

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 8:04 UTC (Thu) by pointwood (guest, #2814) [Link]

Yearh, where is that subscription page - I can't seem to find it anywhere? :p

Why release the latest newsletter each monday? Why not release it when the next version is released. That will also make it more attractive to pay subscription - just like reading yesterdays newspaper - it's just not as interesting as todays newspaper.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 14:11 UTC (Thu) by fdesloges (guest, #291) [Link]

I totally, 1000%, agree with this.
Delaying for 1 week (or 2) is the right balance:

- There is still value in the weekly edition after a week or two
for people who simply can not afford to subscribe (thanks to its
unbelievable editorial/analysis quality).

- The reader definitely feel it would be worth to subscribe if he knows
that he could be reading _this_week_ edition instead of last week.

- It maintains Thursday as the greatest day of the week, whether you
subscribe or not (do not underestimate the power of that ritual :-)

An other point to never forget: the other goodies that you plan for the
subscribers may be cool, but your readership keep telling you that they
come back week after week and are a willing to pay for a single thing:
high quality editorial and kernel analysis that you already do perfectly.

Please do not commit the mistake of diluting your talent on something
you're not certain your readership will value. Concentrate on your
acclaimed core skills, your readership will support you forever.

Thanks for the unbelievable work

:-)

FD

Hmmm, by the way, you keep saying that we guys are the best. I personnaly
think that we are just a bunch of weak bastards in fear of seeing our main
source of reliable information disappear. And this is perfectly Ok ! What
_would_ have been outstanding is donating you so much money just because
you're great, that you would never had the chance to threaten us !

But I think this a good lesson in socio-economy: the same way the GPL
forces us behaving in a unnatural way for our own benefit
(natural == immediate self-interest), a good subscription model
forces us to give you the ressources needed for our own benefit too !
Dumb human beings like me are way too short-sighted to do it
free-willingly...

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 20:30 UTC (Thu) by shaddai (guest, #1662) [Link]

If they delay the weekly edition for non-subscribers to one week late, but keep it on the same day, it may not upset the non-subscribers' schedule enough to make them actually subscribe. If they have to read it on a different day, it just might convince them that Thursday's just aren't the same with out LWN.

And count me in for a subscription, no matter how expensive it is (I'll find a way to go all the way up to $120/year).

-shaddai

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 17:25 UTC (Thu) by stonedown (guest, #2987) [Link]

I think delaying the weekly edition to nonsubscribers for a week is a great idea. And it needs to be made clear to the reader that they are reading last week's edition. If they want the current one, then they can get it by subscribing.

Also, I think you need to make it clear to nonsubscribers that subscription revenue is what keeps LWN.net going. That their support is needed, in order to ensure the continuation of the web site. So not only does subscribing get them some additional bennies, but it's the *right thing to do*.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 3:07 UTC (Thu) by showell (subscriber, #2929) [Link]

If you're looking for a vote of support you have mine (I have already voted with my wallet)

I want to further add that I se no reason the editorial staff should work for a minimum amount of money. Good people should be paid accordingly (I certainly do that in my company and I have some very good people).

I am willing to pay because you provide a service I find valuable. Please don't tempt me not to pay by releasing you weekly product too early. Releaseing it a few days late will only mean I will put off my reading for a few days. If you want subscription to work then do it properly. I would suggest restricting the weekly edition for a month

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 7:43 UTC (Thu) by kay (subscriber, #1362) [Link]

You´re on the way. Try it with the small delay until monday for the first time. If the subscribers base is to small extend the delay, maybe dynamically.

Kay

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 8:07 UTC (Thu) by Manny_Calavera (guest, #2846) [Link]

I'm sure that enough people will sign up as all linux geeks i know recommend LWN. I even think that payment is no problem for those people if they get a good news source. Additionally, I think it's no problem to reach 20000$-25000$ per month. Many just haven't donated until now because they were waiting for the subscription and didn't want to spend money to a dead project which LWN definitly is NOT.

see you,
- Manny -

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 10:42 UTC (Thu) by Felix.Braun (subscriber, #3032) [Link]

I've been a happy lwn reader since almost the very beginning and I'd gladly pay to get the weekly edition on thursday mornings (european time) instead of the following monday. One problem for me though is how to get the money to you as I have no credit card and PayPal charges 1.50 EUR each time I want to put money on my account. In the long run I would probably even accept that overhead.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 14:49 UTC (Thu) by Manny_Calavera (guest, #2846) [Link]

It's the same problem for me as i live in Europe, too (Germany).
I hope they will bring up paypal.de as soon as possible

see you,
- Manny -

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 2, 2002 18:30 UTC (Fri) by KeineHeimat (guest, #2154) [Link]

Or maybe open an account at a bank inside the Euro-Zone, transactions are cheaper inside. (Or will be cheaper in the near future?)

Bank orders to the USA are very expensive.

Credit cards are unpopular in Germany and maybe in whole continental Europe. People here prefer direct transactions, maybe by celluar phone, but no credits ;-)

Sending notes in an envelope isn't an option, I fear.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 12:06 UTC (Thu) by DaveK (subscriber, #2531) [Link]

I have a couple of points to do with subscriptions.

Firstly, on the subject of information not being free if you impose subscription only access to the weekly edition. Thats not strictly true. The information remains free, it is still out there, most of it is in the daily updates (or newswire) pages which remain free.
What a subscription buys is not access to information, but access to the LWN team's expertise, their distillation of the news and what is important, and their editorial style. I'll pay for access to that.
It will always be possible to go and read (trudge through) Kernel Traffic, ZDNet, Freshmeat etc. but for a subscription LWN does this for you, and presents a summary of whats important. Consider it a kind of 'News Distribution' somewhat akin to a Linux distribution, you can build your own from scratch by trawling sourceforge, GNU and metalab, and figure out what is important, or you can subscribe to Slackware, SuSE, RedHat etc. have them do it for you and toss in a few goodies.
On the subject of releasing the weekly edition on Mondays, there is always the danger that for most people it will turn into 'LWN Weekly Edition Published Monday'. For subscription to be a real incentive it needs to be delayed until the following edition is out.
As a suggestion, perhaps the summary that is published on the daily page should contain a little more info about what is in the weekly edition, a sort of teaser to entice people to buy a subscription to read more.
Finally, in a previous comment, someone spoke of getting subscriptions towards $50/year, that is only $4/month or $1/week. A decent print publication (full of corporate advertising) with a simillar technical and editorial level costs at least twice that. I too believe a survey is required to determine how many people will subscribe, and the level of subscriptions people are prepared to pay.

Another suggestion for subscriptions / sponsorships.

Posted Aug 1, 2002 13:00 UTC (Thu) by seanpecor (guest, #2983) [Link]

I was pleased to see that your task items included some suggestions made by both myself and others. Given the level of enthusiasm observed in the comments I would, in addition, suggest you consider the following:

Take advantage of the level of loyalty and enthusiasm expressed by Linux folks by creating an LWN Yellow Pages area. Make the LWN Yellow Pages area browseable by category. Nothing too vast, perhaps 20 categories each with 5-10 subcategories. Examples: I.T. Services -> Web Designers, Internet Service Providers -> Web Hosting. For each category, sell a SINGLE "Platinum" listing for (example) $500 per anuum. This would appear at the very top (bolded perhaps). Sell a SINGLE "Gold" listing for (example) $250 per anuum. This would appear as the second link. Then, sell as many "Silver" listings as you can for (example) $100 per anuum.

If you look at the NASCAR sponsorship model, people who are fans of a particular driver/car are MUCH more likely to purchase from their sponsors. Applying this to LWN one would assume that being a Platinum/Gold/Silver sponsor would affect the buying decisions of some folks and make the nominal sponsorship investment quite a bargain. I, for one, would spend at least $500 per anuum to have Marketingtool.com's Editor's Pick service recommended in a Web Designers category. I'm sure many other biz folks would feel the same.

A theoretical scenario might have you selling 20 Platinum sponsorships, 40 Gold sponsorships and 120 Silvers. That would imply an additional $32,000/yr in revenue using my above numbers.

Making the weekly edition available

Posted Aug 1, 2002 13:01 UTC (Thu) by jerome (guest, #2848) [Link]

The weekly edition is a convenience. All the content is available in the daily format in any case. And conveniences should be restricted to members. I can probably wait until Monday to read LWN. But I don't want to miss out entirely, and I can't visit the site every day.

Yes, I am recommending that you take something from me. Because I really want LWN to live on. This is a drastic measure. But if I do not feel I have to register, I will only do so to help you guys out. It will still be a donation, whatever freebies I get. And as you know, most people forget to donate.

Whatever you choose to do, I wish you the best of luck. Thanks!

Jerome

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 13:31 UTC (Thu) by blah (guest, #3040) [Link]


I'll sign up.

Here's an idea, though: as well as having yearly subscriptions, allow people to pay weekly as well. Post the headlines of the Weekly Edition where all can see them (maybe with a brief synopsis) and allow the option of paying for that one edition (say $3-$5?).

Restricted content considered harmful

Posted Aug 1, 2002 13:33 UTC (Thu) by xoddam (subscriber, #2322) [Link]

I'm in a minority here but I have misgivings about the
subscription model. I've been reading LWN since 1998,
I know its worth, and I've made a donation like many
others as 'back payment' -- only when it hit home what
dire straits you were in. Yet if it had been a subscription
site from the beginning, I would never have read it. I
just followed a link (I think from uk.linux.org?) and
since you got the lwn.net domain you've never been more
than eight keystrokes away.

I *will* pay for a subscription if LWN goes that way. But I
fear it will put a ceiling on the number of readers of the
Weekly News. The updates are valuable in themselves, but
no more than a hundred other weblogs.

The Weekly News *with* its editorial content is what inspires
the loyalty of readers. Take that away from casual surfers
and Slashdot links, and no new readers will ever get hooked
waiting for Thursdays again. Requiring a login would be a
significant barrier even if there was no payment involved;
setting any price would immediately make LWN too expensive
for many potential readers -- the youngest, the users of
public computers in libraries and schools, those in the
poorest countries -- those who have the most to gain from
free software and the free information you have provided for
so long.

I had expected LWN to shrink somewhat after Tucows dropped
you, rather than to have expanded such that editorial and
administrative work fills five full-time positions. I
hate to see LWN's editors begging as you have done for
some months now (blind as we all were), but LWN will not
be the same publication if it turns to a pay-for-content
model.

Corporate sponsorship is of course the ideal way to fund
your work on LWN -- how many system administrators rely
on your security pages, how many software developers and
webmasters on your development pages, how many engineers
on the kernel commentaries? I hope you achieve great
success in this area. Barring that...

Many readers have shown their willingness to donate money
to help out with the publication of LWN, and I'm certain
that some (me, me!) would also gladly contribute their
own time and expertise.

As I understood it in the early days, Eklektix inc. was a
healthy Web services and consulting business, some of whose
staff took some time out to produce a little bulletin.

Eklektix hasn't advertised its services on LWN since the
Tucows acquisition (has it existed?), and there has been
but one position-wanted advertisement. Has no-one put any
work your way?

I am grateful to you and respectful of the amount of time
you have all *donated* to keep LWN alive. As you point out,
you're all experienced software engineers and you're all
perfectly capable of earning an excellent living, so it
has been a significant sacrifice of income -- and your
desired figure for employing yourselves as staff would
not bring an end to that. For LWN to return to being a
bulletin produced in the spare time from more lucrative
pursuits would not be a tragedy.

Closing the Linux Weekly News to the world *would*.

Restricted content considered harmful

Posted Aug 1, 2002 17:40 UTC (Thu) by stonedown (guest, #2987) [Link]

Delaying non-subscriber access to the weekly edition for a week wouldn't prevent "free-loaders" from looking at older editions. In reality, a one-week delay is pretty inconsequential to a casual news reader. I think a two-week delay is too long, though. Two-week-old news and commentary seems awfully stale, even for free-loaders.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 13:47 UTC (Thu) by ajcpi (guest, #1122) [Link]

OK. so the problems plaguing LWN are a microcosm of the issues confronting Free software.
There was a proposal made a while back (http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue4_6/kelsey/index.html)
about a mechansism for paying producers of free content without compromising the freedom of the content. It occurs to me that LWN might well be a "Proof of Concept" case for this protocol. LWN can commit to producing editions on the condition that sufficient money flows in (perhaps edition by edition, or perhaps only if 3 months of salaries remain in the kitty or some such), and to return the money to contributors if the threshold is not reached. LWN probably has sufficient credibility with it's readers to have their trust etc.

I like this sort of arrangement because it asserts that you should be paid for your efforts and creativity and contribution without creating an artificial monopoly on the content produced.

If this can be made successfull, LWN can perhaps sponsor other free content producers under similar arrangements. (for a (small? ) fee?)

Perhaps the authors of the article would be willing to help work out policies and arrangements.

Just an idea, and surely could use refinement.

a.

Subscrition

Posted Aug 1, 2002 13:59 UTC (Thu) by hubert.tonneau (guest, #3042) [Link]

I believe that subscribtion is ok, and they are plenty of guys like
me that had to stop their Byte subscription but would love to
subscribe a new technologie and free software oriented journal (*),
but on the other hand, subscription means that I would expect
more detailed articles more oriented to help the reader decide
what technology he well select for his next project.

Probably switching to once a month rate is necessary to achieve
such a goal since the most interesting things to deliver to the
reader are either about a young and inovative projects or a
comparison of several solutions, and both need some heavier
investigations to go behond repeating what everybody already knows.

(*) Nowdays, since advirtising is the main revenue of most journals,
they tend to speek fiew of really free issues, and on the other hand,
true users are most interested by these because they bring the
brightest futur.

Restricted content the right idea ?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 14:50 UTC (Thu) by pspinler (subscriber, #2922) [Link]


While I have donated and will subscribe, I also have doubts about the long term success of a subscription model. Note that other web publications (notably salon.com) which attempted a subscription model have failed miserably.

Instead, I advocate using a voluntary 'pledge' model similar to public radio or public tv, where subscribers are asked to pledge whatever amount they can afford. As far as I know, this funding model hasn't been used yet in an internet publication, but is proven to work for other media.

Here's how it can work: as another poster suggested in the last status update, put a "doom-o-meter" on the front page saying how long you can continue to operate. As long as the amount of money you have exceeds a set threshold, content continues to be free.

On the other hand, if the "doom-o-meter" falls below some set value, perhaps 1 or 2 months funds, then and only then redirect non-subscribers and non-current subscribers to a pledge page, and put a big 'help support LWN' ad in the middle of the content for the rest of us.

I think this is the best of all worlds, your readers know the health of the publication automatically, non-subscribers are chivvied up for cash whenever needed, subscribers only pay what they think your content is worth, and you continue to get the free, open, and widespread exposure needed to keep growing your readership and subscriber base. Again like public radio/tv, sponsoring companies can support you in the form of subscriber contribution matches, which can be used to encourage more subscribers.

Also, please support an option of contributing a smaller set amount every month, rather than one big chunk. I can much more easily afford $10 or $20 a month than $120 or $200 at a go.

-- Pat

Reduction in staff

Posted Aug 1, 2002 16:14 UTC (Thu) by George2 (guest, #3049) [Link]

It appears clear from where I am typing that LWN needs to face up to the necessity of a significant reduction in staff.

If you cannot meet expenses then you have to cut expenses - if you wish, in some fashion, to survive.

E.g. - when the excellent Storage Review site faced folding, one of it's two staff members found other work. A sadness for everyone, it is true - and the site is no longer everything that once it was.

Financially, I would guess that the fellow who left was probably much better off than the fellow who stayed. It is not as if you would be financially hurting anyone by letting them go - far from it. You would probably be doing them a favour by letting them out gracefully.

But at least then the site would still up and running and still serving the greater community.

Sometimes half a loaf is better than none.

Good luck,

George2

Good luck LWN!

Posted Aug 1, 2002 15:40 UTC (Thu) by scglwn (subscriber, #1245) [Link]

It's good to hear that you will try to continue.
I just sent in a donation to help Fortuna turn her wheel in the right direction. Off course, I'll subscribe.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 16:34 UTC (Thu) by cpeterso (guest, #305) [Link]


I know this is not Politically Correct, but maybe you need to consider cutting LWN expenses. I religiously read the LWN front page and kernel news; they have the most important news (to me) and in depth analysis. I only read the other sections occasionally because they are mostly summaries and links to other sites news. Maybe five editors are more than enough, depending on which sections are most popular to (paying) subscribers..

Delay release by a week; reduce costs; limit $subscription.

Posted Aug 1, 2002 17:27 UTC (Thu) by dwheeler (guest, #1216) [Link]

I think a subscription model would work; it's at least worth trying,
and I know I'd be willing to subscribe. But you'll need to
"make it work", as you're clearly trying to do.

First, delaying the release by only a few days isn't really a
sufficient return for my hard-earned money. I would, instead,
suggest delaying release of your material for one week
(when the new material surfaces). In many ways that
makes sense; you release publicly the "old" material when
there's something new. I _do_ think that eventual
public release is important -
it keeps LWN influentual even on non-subscribers, and it's
also important to YOU (the old articles act as advertisement,
showing potential readers what they're missing by not
subscribing), and it's important for the
community (so they can link and respond to your analysis).

Second, you need to reduce your costs. I respect your desire
to include the "Commerce" section, but Linux is so common
in the commercial world now that there really isn't a need
for this section; others are doing most of what that
section contains. Also, couldn't you do what you do with
4 people instead of 5? (I know, letting someone go is
terrible, but if it's done with grace, there's always the hope
that there will be enough money to re-hire later if it's
mutually agreed on... and it beats having EVERYONE go).
This is similar to
what happened in the software announcements; when LWN
started, it listed every new software release, but then
switched to a freshmeat.net link when that list became
a torrent. Things change; you need to identify the areas that
LWN is uniquely capable of doing, and CONCENTRATE on
just doing those things well. Handling subscriptions will
cost money, too, so even if you were sent your target amount,
there's a cost to handling checks, credit cards, software to
implement and track subscriptions, etc. DON'T try to
go to paper print.. that will just increase your costs, and
I doubt you'll increase your readership.

Third, I can't afford a big-buck subscription. $10-$20, yes,
$30 probably, but I can't justify $100. I've no idea what
number you're planning - and you probably don't either.
But I doubt your goal is 10 readers. It'd be far better to
have a lower rate and then work to gain the money through
volume - a lower rate means there will be more subscribers.
I don't know what the "sweet spot" is; perhaps you could
check on other magazines to help you figure out a process
for determining the best rate.


Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 17:31 UTC (Thu) by sharkey (guest, #3050) [Link]

I don't like the idea of moving to a subscription model. It doesn't sit well with me and doesn't seem to fit well with a pro-free/open software site such as this. I don't like the idea of the hassle involved with managing accounts and needing to log in to read the page, or the fact that this will discourage many new readers who haven't read the site before, or many of the younger readers who don't have as much disposable income.

The basic idea behind a subscription model is to motivate people who otherwise would not have paid to do so. This is a contrast to the donation model, which provides no direct incentive for individuals to contribute funds, other than the general knowledge that if enough people don't donate, services will stop.

It seems to me that you have reached the conclusion that a subscription model might be a practical way to extract funds from readers because readers have just voluntarily donated a relatively large sum of money. This is ass backwards if anything is.

What's needed for the donation model to work is communication. If you read over the posts from last week's announcement, one motif you see over and over again is "we didn't know things were this bad". In order for the donation model to work, it's necessary to communicate how much is needed and how much has been contributed. If this information isn't shared, then potential donors will have no clue whether or not their contribution will make a difference. Last Thursday you made your dire straights public knowledge, and the money started rolling in.

To conclude from that that you need to introduce a subscription model is mind boggling.

Another thing that needs to be considered is the nature of the LWN readership. If you believe Eric Raymond, open source hackers operate in a gift economy. Status is achieved through voluntary giving. It could be that a large number of current donors may walk away if a subscription model is imposed. I've made a donation myself, and I was glad to do so. I'd like to donate more in the future. I have zero interest in purchasing a subscription. It doesn't fit with the relationship I'd like to have with this site or Linux software in general. It's the wrong vibe.

I encourage you to keep trying, but don't start locking away content just when your readers have come forward to show that they can provide support voluntarily.

If you feel the need to provide more incentives, then sell $50 coffe mugs and $75 tote bags the way PBS/NPR does. Don't lock down the site to only paying members, even if it is for just a few days after a new issue is released.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 17:54 UTC (Thu) by emkey (guest, #144) [Link]

Reality is that people have to eat, and thirty years of trying purely voluntary forms of making ends meet haven't seemed to meet with much success. I've donated money to LWN in the past and I'll pay a subscription in the future gladly. And I'll do it for the same reason i buy support and CD's from RedHat. Because I believe in the products and the concepts and I want to support them.

Communism didn't work, totally free software and content won't either on any significant scale. Still, I think it is possible to create content and software for significantly less then large corporations do. And that's something I'd like to see continue because of the diversity of products and opinions that such models allow for.

Subscriptions vs. donations

Posted Aug 1, 2002 18:06 UTC (Thu) by stonedown (guest, #2987) [Link]

Some people are more comfortable with subscriptions, because they feel like they are "getting something" for their money. Other people are more comfortable with donations, because they like giving, rather than paying for a service.

Ultimately, I like the subscription model, because I think it stands a better chance of keeping LWN.net afloat. Even public radio and public television give away lots of bennies, in exchange for donations. Also, their customers have to put up with interruption of service, due to the fundraising drives. Public broadcasting is what it is, due to the limitations of the medium. Broadcasters can't charge directly for their services, because there's no way to restrict content. So, they either advertise, or they ask the audience to support them with donations. This is a constant battle fought by public radio stations. *Considerable* resources are spent in public broadcasting, in order to ensure that the money keeps coming in.

LWN.net is published on the web. Therefore, it has the capability of making some services free, and charging for others, in order to support the business. I think this will ensure a more continuous and predictable revenue stream, rather than relying on people's good will. Waiting a week is a small price to pay for people who can't afford to subscribe, but it provides an incentive for those of us who can afford it and are interested in the very latest stuff.

Consider your subscription to be a donation. It's just that, in exchange for your support, you get a special "thank you", in the form of special perks to reward you for *doing the right thing*.

A combination of solutions is required

Posted Aug 1, 2002 17:54 UTC (Thu) by maphew (guest, #1147) [Link]

As usual, the final "solution" will be a combination of ideas, all of which have already been said but I'll say again to add weight to the ones I consider important. :)

- In the absence of a large corporate sponsor, and none have stepped up to the plate since you first started talking about the financial problems some months ago, I think we all agree some sort of subscription model is a must.

- Restricting content will change the nature of LWN. That is a given. The question is what changes can you, and we, live with happily.

- For subscribers, consider changing to Linux Monthly News, with longer articles. (e.g. spend 2 weeks programming for $$$ and 2 weeks writing LWN for <$)

- The free access edition should be at least one, maybe two, issues behind the current paid for edition (only one if LWN is monthly). A few days will not be enough.

+ crazy idea: Convince Google to buy a subscription so that search results can point to articles which have not yet "ripened" to free public access.

- Allow editions to be purchased individually like newspapers. This will necessitate some sort of teaser summary articles "In this edition of LWN we cover ...."

- Leave a tip jar out on the counter

- I personally find the articles and editorials the most important part of LWN, announcements etc. are available in many other places (and it is very convenient to have them on LWN too).

- Whatever the setup, no part of LWN should ever be permanently unavailable to the anonymous and non paying public.

- Sadly, a staff member or two leaving for other hunting grounds is probably a necessity, at least for ahwile.

Free software *users* (which includes myself) need to understand that there really is no such thing as a free lunch. If we haven't paid anything so far it is because someone else has picked up the cheque already. Our community as a whole needs to come to grips with this reality and respond to it. This is a perfect opportunity to start.

My 2 canadian cents.

-matt

A combination of solutions is required

Posted Aug 1, 2002 17:57 UTC (Thu) by maphew (guest, #1147) [Link]

>" I think we all agree some sort of subscription model is a must."

In lieu of another well written comment that rolled in while I was composing I take that back.

A suggestion

Posted Aug 1, 2002 18:26 UTC (Thu) by cdurst (guest, #2953) [Link]

I have always loved LWN and read it religiously. I donated $100 as soon as I read that LWN was in danger of stopping. (I don't really care whether that gets applied toward my subscription, I considered it a payment I owed for the last several years.)

My Suggestion:
You could put something like a "pledge thermomitor" in the upper left corner of your pages that indicates whether you're operating in the green or the red. When it drops down into the red (and perhaps begins flashing), it would encourage more people to click it and donate.

Alternatively, I suppose you could borrow another idea from public broadcasting and occasionally put a lot of annoying "pledge break" pages in your server that would be turned off for anyone who subscribed/donated.

Anyway, I hope you folks can keep publishing LWN for a long time to come.
Good luck!

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 18:39 UTC (Thu) by x_nc (guest, #2633) [Link]

I am extatic that there is even the possibility of LWN hanging around. I will definitely subscribe when the subscription system is implimented. I would have already donated something if it weren't for the fact that I already spent all my "extra" funds on K5.

Maybe if I donate Jonathan will publish my letters-to-the-editor again.

Subscription and Free

Posted Aug 1, 2002 18:44 UTC (Thu) by scripter (subscriber, #2654) [Link]

1. I don't mind paying a subscription fee each month for your quality editorials. The value is in your quality writing and summarizing.

2. I read LWN from a variety of locations. Logging in would be a bit inconvenient, but I could handle it.

3. The one-week delay for non-subscribers sounds extremely reasonable. I also agree with the previous comment about the power of habit -- let people read on Thursdays. A delay of anything other than a multiple of seven days would be counter-productive.

4. Once a month, make an issue free. Make it the first Thursday of each month. Newcomers will get to sample the content while it is "fresh", and then they will be more likely to subscribe.

5. Maybe the fund drive has merit. Stop producing LWN until neccessary funds are available. Normally I *HATE* fund drives. But I do contribute to my local radio station. During the fund drives, I tune to a different radio station.

6. Doing a giant monthly edition is a *TERRIBLE* idea. I like weekly editions. Monthly news it too much out-of-date. LWN is known as *weekly* news, not Linux-Monthly-News. I would drop LWN if it became a monthly publication.

Monthly Donations?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 19:14 UTC (Thu) by rmassa (guest, #2984) [Link]

What I haven't heard people suggest is a "monthly donation" plan, where you could automatically bill a pre-determined amount on a monthly basis. It seems like a happy medium between the donation/subscription debate. Either way, count me in for a monthly payment of any sorts. Its worth $20 a month for me. Just let me know where to sign up!

My take with (hopefully) supporting logic.

Posted Aug 1, 2002 19:19 UTC (Thu) by frazier (guest, #3060) [Link]

Here's my suggestions, which is not too far off base from many other comments:
  1. Delay release the weekly news by two weeks or one week (exactly) to the public. Why?
    • It encourages subscriptions as a value-added proposition.
    • People are creatures of habit, and there is value on having the weekly news come out on the same day whether there's a subscription or not. The Monday public release seems like an insufficient delay of time plus it would involve change for people when they become subscribers. Keep the Thursday morning element active but do not provide the most current edition to the public.
    • It is far easier to get the average employer to sign off on a 'subscription' expense than a donation.
    • The weekly edition maintains worth and exposure to non-subscribers with a two week delay, so you'll still be able to attract new readers while maintaing added value for subscribers.
  2. Consider reducing the staff by a person, at least temporarily. Yes, there will be a quality hit to LWN and it's hard to let good people go, but it will keep expenses more in line. Corbet must remain on staff!
  3. Merchandising!: Sell something like this mock-up of an LWN T-shirt for too much money ($20) with profits going back to LWN.
  4. No print edition. Automating a PDF version for paper-loving subscribers to print for themselves might be a good idea and perhaps an additional value added service. Printed paper editions will likely raise overhead beyond the gain from added subscribers.
  5. Allow for people to 'over pay' for subscriptions. Set a floor of $52 or $60 a year but allow people to spend more per year if they desire. Allowing for quarterly subscriptions would also be nice, and should cost more per time unit (maybe $18 or $20 a quarter). No trial subscriptions. The 2 week old edition plas back issues should sufficiently prove worth.
In short, run trim, make sure there is added value for subscribers while maintaining enough value to attract new readers, sell overpriced junk to people such as myself that would get a kick out of it and supporting LWN at the same time, and keep the same day of the week for weekly news releases for the public and subscribers. Thanks for a wonderful service. People (like me) buy O'Reilly books and I'm willing to pay for quality Linux news too.

Cutting costs

Posted Aug 1, 2002 19:33 UTC (Thu) by pm101 (guest, #3011) [Link]

I'm not sure if adding lots of 'goodies' for subscribers is the right
approach. The problem, as I see it, is you have a staff of five people,
which will take about $180,000 to sustain in troubled times (long-term,
leading to you losing people), and really, more like $300,000. The weekly
paper is quite long.

There's two approaches to reaching profitability:
* Increase income
* Cut costs

We've addressed the former in pretty exhaustive detail, but I think LWN
may want to eventually do both. The publication is gold, and I'd rather
have a little less gold than none at all.

I wouldn't fire anyone, but if one or two of the non-Corbet people get a
better job offer at some point, it might make sense for them to take the
job and leave a shorter publication behind. I would prefer not to
completely lose any of the first five sections, but scaling back the
length of LWN might make sense. Cut out Linux-in-Business, shorten
Linux-in-the-news to maybe links to three articles a week, and cut the
Distributions and Development sections in half.

If you want to add anything, maybe reinstate a two-paragraph version of
on-the-desktop, but otherwise I wouldn't add anything that involves any
amount of labor to sustain.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 22:36 UTC (Thu) by carlos (guest, #3066) [Link]

Proposal:

1) Show in a very visible place, the top 5 contributors of the month, the top 5
contributors of the week and the the top 5 contributors of the day. Add links to lists
of all contributors.

2) Show in a very visible place, how much money is still missing to reach the target
for the current month. The daily updated raised money would show the grand total,
including the donated and advertising money. So people can see: "mmm, the target is
US$ 15,000, today is already 15th and these guys only got 5,000 so far. Let's
contribute to them". or: "This month people contributed already 20,000, and there's
still a week to go, let's save my contribution for the next month".

This way, friends of LWN (and this might apply in the future to other Linux sites)
would know exactly how things are, in a open way, automatically updated every day.
And they can help, particularly when money is more hardly needed, with the little but
important reward of seeing her/his name in the thank you board of the month, of the
week, of the day.

I am not sure if the amount of money raised this way would be enough, of course, but
I think it would be worth to try.

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 1, 2002 23:28 UTC (Thu) by DaveK (subscriber, #2531) [Link]

A few more thoughts, for what they're worth.

A lot of people harp on about communism in the free software community, and come out with a lot of rubbish, and portray communism and socialism in a very negative light. Communism in its true form, like most socialist veins, is about the workers getting paid a fair due for the work they do, and not being exploited by their paymasters. In a slightly deeper sense it achieves this by requiring that the means of prduction be controlled by the workers.
Expanding this to LWN requires the readers to pay a fair due to the LWN staff for their time and expertise, call it a tax, a subscription or a contribution. These people need to be paid. Anything else could be considered exploitation.
How many readers out there would be happy if their employer decided to stop charging for their goods/services, and decided to let their customers have it for free, only paying their staff should a customer decide to generously contribute. Very few I think. Freeloaders would abound.
In a socialist system, subscribers would have a say, a vote, over what content LWN would carry, its tyle etc. In a capitalist system they would merely stop subscibing if it didn't carry what they want.
If a subscription based LWN is to be successful, I believe it needs to be open to the community about roughly what its costs are, roughly how much it is making from subscriptions, donations etc. and where that money is going.
I think most people will be much happier paying a subscription if they understand that it is going to cover a reasonable wage, healthcare and pension for the LWN team members who produce the great content that IS LWN, rather than to line some fat cats or shareholders pockets.
As for not attracting potential new readers if a subscription system is imposed, It needs to be remembered that non-subscribers won't be cut off from all content as many other sites do, merely prevented from acessing the most recent stuff if the most popular options(s) are followed. They can clearly see what the site is about, what its standards, attitudes and quality are. They have a choice to either pay for the most up to date stuff, or be patient.
As for levels of subscription, perhaps LWN should offer various lengths of subscription, say annual, quarterly, monthly and one-off, with up front or monthly payment options. The longer term ones should be cheaper per issue then the shorter ones since this will allow LWN to plan more for the future knowing that they have longer term support, and encourage people to subscribe for a longer period.

Costs.

Posted Aug 2, 2002 5:00 UTC (Fri) by Inoshiro (guest, #3070) [Link]

Please note that this is a repeat of what was sent to letters@lwn.net. I post it here to "run it up the flag pole" and to also voice the lesser spoken side of the argument. Many people have said they will subscribe, few have said cut costs. I suggest they attack the other side fo the cost equation.

-=-=-=-=-

Hi, guys. I've read your site for a long time, and I've donated. However, I think 3,000$ USD per month per person is really, really high. I do agree with making money with what you know, but I don't agree with your salaries. I will not be donating any more money to you partially because I make 137$ USD a week, and require all my money to live, partially because I think you could get by with 1,000$ a month salary and be reasonable).

With 25,000, you are able to run for 1.6666(..) months. A site like Kuro5hin can run for 6 months. I could live for a little over a year in comparative luxury.

If the money is too low, do what I do. Have a Real Job (TM) and continue to do LWN as a hobby. It can pay like no other hobby does, and it does well to itself. In the future, when there is a large enough subscription base that even your most pesimistic numbers give you more money than you know how to spend, that might be a good time to switch to living off of LWN.

I'm not saying don't make money, and I'm not saying that I reject you because you want to make money, but I question your motives if you work on LWN only for money. Job loyalty and loyalty to subscribers/readers is something I consider important from the people behind a site I read.

If this grew out of a hobby, why is it so hard to have it go back to hobby status (not entirely true as you could still make money, just not boatloads of it, on the side)?

Costs.

Posted Aug 2, 2002 6:17 UTC (Fri) by percy (guest, #3073) [Link]

$3,000 per month per person is nothing. Please note that they mentioned the magic word "health insurance", which is a very necessary evil. Of the $3k, 1/2 to 1/3 actually ends up getting paid in salary while the rest goes to benefits such as health insurance and the like. Assuming that each person, after health insurance, gets $1,500, that would mean that they are making $18,000/year gross. Try paying a mortgage, feeding the family, paying utilities, making a car payment, etc... with $1,500 a month *before taxes*.

In all reality, $3,000 a month still represents a large sacrifice on the part of the LWN staff.

Perhaps a move would help.

Posted Aug 3, 2002 0:40 UTC (Sat) by Inoshiro (guest, #3070) [Link]

Canada is much cheaper to live in. With the money supplied, they could live like kings. If they want tropical weather, Vancouver is very much like Seattle (they are spitting distances from each other).

Costs of living

Posted Aug 2, 2002 13:35 UTC (Fri) by pm101 (guest, #3011) [Link]

This is primarily for the foreign readers (not for the LWN staff).

$3000 per month is not a lot in the US. I rent a room in an old,
broken-down apartment in Cambridge, MA. That's $525 a month. If I had a
family, I'd need the whole apartment. That's $2100/month. Food runs me
about $10/day, and I eat fairly cheap compared to most other graduate
students. You can scale that appropriately for a family. Having a car costs
a few thousand a year for insurance, in addition to the costs of gasoline,
buying a new one every 10 years, etc. In most parts of the US, there is
not enough public transportation to survive without a car. Add to that
clothing, medical costs, occasional entertainment, etc., and you run into
a heck of a lot of money.

Also, compare the opportunity cost of running LWN; how much less money they
make than in a normal job. A competent programmer in the US will make on
the order of $5,000 per month. A good programmer will make about
$8,000-9,000 per month.

The last thing to remember is the estimate is for the total cost of
LWN. That includes insurance, taxes, and other expenses. Usually, total
labor costs run about twice salary, so $3000/month/employee would come to
considerably less than $2000/month/employee salary. In many parts of the
US, that's not close to enough to raise a family on.

I was born in Eastern Europe, and I understand US salaries seem outragously
large compared to the second and third world. But costs of living and
expenses are much, much higher as well. Trust me when I say that the
salaries the LWN staff are requesting right now are very minimalistic by
US standards.

I'm glad you replied.

Posted Aug 3, 2002 0:46 UTC (Sat) by Inoshiro (guest, #3070) [Link]

I know you've had some econ at some point if you mention opprotunity costs :)

But you seem to miss the point that I said they should get day jobs, and just do this on the side.

Granted, costs can be more in the US, but consider North Dakota. $6,000 there is like $10,000 in many other states. I mean, it's great to have your cake and eat it too. Use the internet to live where it's cheap, but get money from the better paying parts of the world.

My father lives in Hawaii, and I visited him last year. Costs there are moderately higher (raw #s wise) and that accounts for shipping. The tourist areas are outrageously expensive, though :) Much like your appartment sounds, which is a matter of the density of universities and colleges in Boston (I visited there last year as well, nice place).

Even if you don't live in Canada, you can reap some of the benefits of living near Canada. The MPAA has artificial price restrictions on DVDs. A DVD which is 20$ USD in the US is 20$ CDN in Canada. This makes importing very nice, especially if you're not to pikcy about declaring things (even then, there are minimum limits you can always stay under).

So there are many ways they could still reduce costs. If I'm going to support LWN further, I want more transparency on their accounting so I can vote with my money on what I agree and don't agree with.

Looking for a money

Posted Aug 2, 2002 9:12 UTC (Fri) by someguy (guest, #3079) [Link]

I have a couple suggestions.

At first, sections may be selled separetely. There are different people, which are interested in different areas. In this case the section should be worthy itself, without others part of lwn, of course.

At second, most valuable segment seems to be in the bussiness area (embedded, servers, corporative desktop and finance news). So, it may be reasonable to seek more bussiness subscribers, then you have already. And make better service for them. Advertisment guys likes rich men too. Here, in Russia, only bussiness news are finance healthy in internet.

Thanks for your work. Glad to see you still have chances to continue.

Internationalize the Staff

Posted Aug 2, 2002 13:06 UTC (Fri) by George2 (guest, #3049) [Link]

On the cost reduction-side of the staying-afloat equation:

Linux is an international phenomenon.

Staffing of LWN should be, too.

For all sorts of excellent reasons. Good things seem to be happening with Linux in South Korea, India, China, etc. Internationalization of the staff would better enable LWN to cover these phenomena in greater depth and breadth than it currently does.

Letting current staff from high-wage countries go and replacing them with highly capable people from low wage countries is the way to go.

There are people with Linux skills, writing skills, editing skills, etc. from countries where $1500 a month - or considerably less - total would be very attractive compensation.

Just have one native-English person on the staff for spell and grammar checking - not everyone is as fluent in English as they are in Linux.

The flip side of such internationalization might also involve translation of LWN into the languages of the staff involved.

Imagine LWN being the most influential Linux publication in the world with issues in English, Korean, Chinese, etc. . . .

This would also open up your advertising base internationally. Each translated edition sponsored by advertising in that particular country.

This way - you might not even have to go to a subscription model here. Donations might pull you through.

A lot of what Linux is now is finding new economic paradigms.

Your current financial troubles may force LWN into inventing a new economic paradigm for publications - and may make LWN an even better publication - out of raw economic necessity.

Look around you - stretch your minds - think of unthought possibilities.

You do not even have to change your initials.

LWN simply goes from being "Linux Weekly News" (at least I think that's what it currently means) to "Linux World News."

When do you start email interviewing?

Any volunteers?

Good luck,

George2

Internationalize the Staff

Posted Aug 5, 2002 10:04 UTC (Mon) by ronjoe (guest, #3115) [Link]

It's true - a huge number of call centres and customer support centres have set up in India and they service markets in USA, UK and other places.
The cost savings are huge due to low salaries in India - about 1/10 the price of Americans/Brits/etc.
So although it may be painful to take an axe to your fine team, replacing them with workers from the third world will enable you to run on a substantially lower budget.

good luck,
rj

Internationalize the Staff

Posted Aug 6, 2002 18:33 UTC (Tue) by hgesser (guest, #3132) [Link]

This seems no good idea to me. International cooperation works very fine with such things as generating code - that has been proven. It doesn't work as well with the generation of editorial content.

Sure you could have low-paid people somewhere writing your articles (if they have all the contacts or information sources that your current crew has - this may be possible), but you'd end up with articles that are far from what people are used to, as to language. A simple "going over the text" by a remaining native English speaker doesn't fix these problems, in many cases you'll have to do complete rewrites of longer passages (I know what I'm talking about :) ).

The translation idea might sound good, but you'd find out that translating a text sometimes takes longer than writing it, and again you have the quality of language problem. So in addition to a team of writers you'd basically need a team of editors (native English ones) that is as big as the current team. I don't see how to save money under that condition. Plus, it is an open question if a translated version (say, German) would generate more readers and possibly higher income - I think most of the intended audience of LWN understands English well enough to read it the way it is - I would stay with the English version even if a German one would be offered - unless the translation was really really good...

Then of course, with removing most of the current team and getting new people elsewhere, LWN wouldn't be the same anymore. Not everyone is replacible (replacable? sorry, I'm no native speaker, either ;) ).

Good luck,
Hans-Georg

don't forget European readers

Posted Aug 2, 2002 16:45 UTC (Fri) by nraynaud (guest, #532) [Link]

If I had to pay, I would like to pay in Euro, this is one of the money the most people use in the world.

Just a reminder.

don't forget European readers

Posted Aug 2, 2002 18:57 UTC (Fri) by KeineHeimat (guest, #2154) [Link]

Which currency to pay doesn't care that much, IMHO. But where to pay. As written before, Credit Cards aren't popular here [kinda telnet for money ;-)] and orders to the USA are very expensive.

Maybe there's a bank which has "shops" in big EUR and USD cities and other countries around the world, too. So (maybe) I could send my money to Account 1234 at BigBank/Frankfurt, a French mate his money to Account 1234 at BigBank/Paris and you could take that money from Account 1234 @ BigBank/WoundedKnee without paying 7.5€ (or so) per transaction.

Just an idea. For what the hell is globalism good for if not for transfering money?

Is it really The End?

Posted Aug 6, 2002 9:08 UTC (Tue) by balbir-_singh (guest, #887) [Link]

This makes me think about the whole "software is free != software costs '0' " philosophy.

I think LWN.NET should look at corporates spending billions of dollars on
Linux. Most of the visitors to lwn.net are people who make a decent of money and I am sure the organizations they work for will be willing to sponsor them to ACM/IEEE, etc. Why not use that money to join LWN?

I am all for the subscription model but if it comes with support. I would like my questions answered. I think big corporations can get corporate subscriptions and pledge support for lwn. Lwn has done a great job till date. One model to serve many companies that require information that is relevant to them. They should be able to get a customized newsletter.

As far as paying the journalists is concerned, I think they definitely deserve more than they get right now. Working for free is not practical, reality catches up sooner or later.

Balbir

Yor One Survey Question

Posted Aug 6, 2002 21:46 UTC (Tue) by taruntius (guest, #1140) [Link]

I have no problem subscribing to LWN in order to help LWN continue to exist. The top reasons why I read LWN and why it has value to me are:
* LWN does an excellent job of aggregating linux news from all over
* LWN provides intelligent editorial commentary on that news
* LWN provides timely and _trustworthy_ reports on security vulnerabilities
* LWN makes it easy for me to stay current on the status of kernel development in an easy once-weekly gulp.

In short, LWN saves me uncountable hours (hours which I don't have) in finding, collecting, and analyzing that information for myself. LWN allows me to be a decent sysadmin for the web/mail site I run without turning that into a second full-time job. I would simply be unable to run my site competently without LWN because I don't have time to do the research that would otherwise involve for myself. It should come as no surprise that I'm willing to pay for that value.

I think you have the right idea in charging for the current weekly edition while allowing the previous weeks' editions to become free. That's a good model that works well for people who have a serious need to be ultra-current on the news as well as people who are willing to trade some extra time for reduced cost.

Clearly, LWN needs to find the point on the "price-vs-num_subscribers" curve which maximizes your revenue. I fully agree with everyone who says you should conduct a survey first, and I think it needs to be exactly one question long: "What do you think is a _fair_ price for a 1-year LWN subscription?" Take a histogram of the responses and you'll have a pretty good idea what your subscription price should be, and based on that, whether you also need to sell sponsorships, etc.

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