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Review: SuSE Linux 9 (NewsForge)
NewsForge reviews
SuSE Linux 9 Professional edition. "SuSE 9 is basically a big
update to all the software packages that it comes with. This release adds a
few new features to the OS, such as auto login, NTFS resizing, system
recovery, and more documentation. But it also fails to solve some problems
that were in 8.2, such as a conflict between Glib 2 and GTK 2, which meant
I couldn't compile Gaim and some other programs. I would have liked to have
seen such more support for DivX and Xvid codecs, so that I could play more
videos without having to download codecs from the Internet. However, all in
all, SuSE 9 is a nice improvement on what we have come to expect from
SuSE."
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Review: SuSE Linux 9 (NewsForge) Posted Nov 13, 2003 18:40 UTC (Thu) by pblanco (guest, #16087) [Link] I switched to SuSE from RH a while back for reasons too numerous to mention. The main use of the system is as a cross-development platform for a MIPS based Linux and SuSE 8.2 more than lived up to the task, so I decided to upgrade to 9.0. The biggest bonus for me was the upgraded OpenOffice suite. Because of some of the upgraded compatibility features, I have been able to completely decommission the Windows box I was using for documentation and scheduling. I can finally get rid of the last vestiges of that other OS.
Review: SuSE Linux 9 (NewsForge) Posted Nov 14, 2003 13:29 UTC (Fri) by jegjessing (guest, #16857) [Link] I also switched to SuSE. I tried SuSE way back at version 7 something,but I could install it at all. At that time I had been using Rh for a long time. One of the fun stuff with Linux at that point was that you had to do a lot of compiling and stuff to make things really work. Windows was boring. You installed a lot of programs. Sometimes they worked and sometimes the did'nt, if they did, bad luck nothing to do about that (almost) Now, with SuSE 8.2 and 9.0 Linux is just as boring :-) Except for the not working stuff. Of course there will allways be hardware combinations that won't work. I've tried that on RH, Debian, Windows, OS/2 you name it. I'm especially happy about the OpenOffice because at work I really needed to be able to use office applications that is really compatible with M$. Now the only problem is printers, way too many printers are unsupported. And if there is a problem with SuSE it is that compiling e.g. KDE3.2 is a pain, simply becuase SuSE has done so much work on integrating a lot of stuff into KDE. I'm only a bit scared about Novell buying SuSE, did (and I'm probably wring here) they not buy Corel Linux? Also a KDE based distro, and where is that now?
Corel Linux became Xandros - nothing to do with Novell Posted Nov 15, 2003 9:05 UTC (Sat) by ctg (subscriber, #3459) [Link] Xandros seems to be chugging along. New version coming up....Never tried it, so can't make any more observations http://www.xandros.com/
Review: SuSE Linux 9 (NewsForge) Posted Nov 16, 2003 8:29 UTC (Sun) by XERC (guest, #14626) [Link] Scheduling?? Well, I don't want to annoy You and I don't know, if it helps, but I'm relly happy with the following: Plan.It's free software, naturally, and ...well, if it didn't take such a long time for me to find it, I would not bother to mention it here. Some features include: syncronization with PalmOS group syncronization(it has a server) preview of the schedule as a time diagram(similar to logic analyser's output) bashscriptable alarms various other good things. Well, it's the best I'v seen so far, I wish it had a few additional features, but I guess, that ... those will be added somewhere in the future or atleast I have the source code(thanx to GPL! :).
Review: SuSE Linux 9 (NewsForge) Posted Nov 13, 2003 21:41 UTC (Thu) by surtur (guest, #16841) [Link] No OS satisfies all issues, at least not in modern history. Perhaps you unintentionally overlooked the effects of the back-porting of the 2.6 kernel features, and the effect this has in improving overall performance? The combination of the 1.1 version of OpenOffice and the new kernel means that this large application (and most others) load dramtically faster. As for the Xvid and other video codecs, I prefer getting them from the Internet, as this insures I get the latest version. The other main OS ships with no support for Xvid, DivX, or most other alternative video formats. I think it's time Linux users start celebrating our accomplishments, instead of dwelling on our failures.
Suse 9: A first look from a long time RHL user Posted Nov 13, 2003 22:08 UTC (Thu) by einstein (subscriber, #2052) [Link] I have been a long time redhat user (since 4.0) but I think I'll be using SUSE more and more.I installed 9.0 and was struck by the fact that everything looked nice and just worked, out of the box. It also made me realize just how much tweaking I'd been accustomed to doing after a redhat install, and the tweaking isn't really needed with SUSE. Just one small example: After installing SUSE 9 in a dual boot setup with windoze 2k, I was able to simply navigate the ntfs partition, find an ms office doc, and open it with openoffice. One more small example: when I plug in a usb pendrive containing some mp3s on the SUSE system, an icon appears immediately on the desktop. I can click on the icon to browse the contents of the drive, and if I click on an mp3, it plays. if I remove the usb pendrive, the icon disappears. That's as it should be, of course. In contrast, what happens when I plug a pendrive into a redhat system? Well, apparently nothing - but I guess that's redhat's non-interest in the desktop market showing again.
Suse 9: A first look from a long time RHL user Posted Nov 13, 2003 22:57 UTC (Thu) by allesfresser (subscriber, #216) [Link] Just a little favor to ask of einstein: could you post your hardware configuration (especially what motherboard, video card, and sound card you are using)? It would be nice to know as kind of a baseline for things that *do* work with a modern distribution.thanks...
Suse 9: A first look from a long time RHL user Posted Nov 14, 2003 8:20 UTC (Fri) by einstein (subscriber, #2052) [Link] Sure - the most recent system I SUSE-ized is my $229 Fry's computer. It's an amd duron 1100 that came with 128 MB RAM and an asian redhat knockoff called "thiz linux" - the computer is of chinese origin, from a company called GC (Great Computers) and all the motherboard functions are based on sis chipsets , including onboard video, sound, networking etc.I installed Redhat 9 to verify everything, then made a few changes as follows: upped RAM from 128 to 512 MB It took quite a bit of googling and downloading to get the tv card working with redhat, but eventually I got it to a somewhat functional state. I also did the usual drill with the nvidia drivers: download, install, edit the XF86Config, test, lather, rinse, repeat. I installed fedora core test 1, and fc t 3 as well, to track it's progress. When the suse 9 CDs arrived, I installed SUSE of course, and the install process found and set up all the hardware, and even put a tv icon on my desktop which launched a viewer program for the tv card. The first time I launched it, it brought up a wizard that set up all the channels for me. (No googling, no man pages needed) Another pleasant surprise was when I went into yast and saw that I could install the nvidia drivers, so I clicked my way through that. quite painless - sheesh, I didn't need to touch the XF86Config file at all - it just worked, next time I restarted the X server.
Suse 9: A first look from a long time RHL user Posted Nov 14, 2003 8:31 UTC (Fri) by macc (subscriber, #510) [Link] SuSE's Hardware Database is quite usefull:http://cdb.suse.de/index.php?LANG=en_UK it is relatively well kept.
Einstein? How Rude! Posted Nov 14, 2003 9:14 UTC (Fri) by AnswerGuy (guest, #1256) [Link] Most common generic desktop configurations should work with any Linux distributions. This guy's comments had little (almost nothing) to do with the hardware configuration and everything to do with polished integration of the software that included with a distribution. The Red Hat approach has always been haphazard. Get a bunch of stuff into RPM format; built them with spec files to figure out their dependencies, and ship it. Little attention has been paid to making these things work together, conform to a sensible and cohesive policy --- integrating them into a SYSTEM rather than a big software collection. S.u.S.E. and Debian have done far more in these latter tasks. Those who have only used Red Hat should try at least one of the other major distros --- to have a basis for comparison.
Einstein? How Rude! Posted Nov 14, 2003 16:23 UTC (Fri) by tjc (subscriber, #137) [Link] The Red Hat approach has always been haphazard. Get a bunch of stuff into RPM format; built them with spec files to figure out their dependencies, and ship it.If you have any real evidence to support that statement, now would be a good time to present it. I'm not overly fond of Red Hat's distribution, but I've always thought that they've done an above-average job of testing and integration. I've had more problems with other ditros, including one of two that you mention.
Einstein? How Rude! Posted Nov 14, 2003 16:36 UTC (Fri) by vblum (guest, #1151) [Link] Err ... not to bash overly on RH (they have indeed done a mostly reasonable job AFAIK when it came to dependencies), but there was this gcc 2.96 issue, and wasn't there some subtly binary-incompatible glibc security update? (IIRC) ...
Einstein? How Rude! Posted Nov 14, 2003 16:56 UTC (Fri) by tjc (subscriber, #137) [Link] ...but there was this gcc 2.96 issue...Oh man, don't go there. That horse was beaten to death and burned at the stake, and we danced around the ashes. Either you agreed with what they did or you didn't, but it no longer matters, if it ever did.
the dead horse Posted Nov 14, 2003 18:42 UTC (Fri) by vblum (guest, #1151) [Link] Err ... I know this horse is dead, nor did it matter to me anyway.But, I believe that I yet answered your question. This kind of thing (as well as the glibc thing) would not have happened to SUSE, I honestly believe; there are enough glitches with SUSE, too - but they have been rather conservative when it came to basic things, in my experience.
the dead horse Posted Nov 14, 2003 20:59 UTC (Fri) by tjc (subscriber, #137) [Link] Well, yeah, Red Hat has always been aggressive with gcc and glibc, and sometimes the kernel, but that's really not what I was talking about.I've occasionally run distros other than Red Hat and Debian, and I've always been disappointed with the number of "stupid" bugs that get through. Red Hat has fewer packages than some (some that I use), but at least they do some integration testing. I hate to say it, but the only other distribution that (used) to compare with Red Hat in the area of integration testing was COL. I think some of the others just download the latest and greatest, make an RPM out of it, and do ten minutes of "it works for me" testing. I can forgive Red Hat for pushing the bleeding edge in areas that benefit the entire community, but it's annoying to have to deal with bugs like some configuration utility core dumping on common hardware.
Einstein? How Rude! Posted Nov 14, 2003 19:39 UTC (Fri) by einstein (subscriber, #2052) [Link] How was I rude?(Ich mache nicht the bilde... ich sehe sie... und dan, sind sie einfach da)
Good point Posted Nov 20, 2003 14:49 UTC (Thu) by tsinclai (guest, #11399) [Link] I teach UNIX system administration at a small technical college. Since the textbook (Guide to Linux Installation and Administration) is based on Red Hat (7.3 in fact), that's how I have to teach the class.So far, so good. I give out copies of RH 8 to my students on the first day of class (I experimented with RH 9 one term and found too many bugs when compiling certain packages) and we're off to the races. This term, however, several of my students have those little USB pen drives and are trying to use them with their Linux desktops. Red Hat recognizes the drives at boot-up but does not automatically mount them. So far I've been explaining that Red Hat is fine for servers but that they're not aiming at the desktop market and that Suse (I give up) or Mandrake should work fine. Anyone have a link to a good discussion of using those USB drives on Red Hat? I've googled around and haven't found much.
Review: SuSE Linux 9 (NewsForge) Posted Nov 13, 2003 22:28 UTC (Thu) by paulfrancis (guest, #15494) [Link] I purchased SUSE9 Pro. This is the 2nd time I have tried SUSE. There will not be a 3rd time. Given the relatively high price of the Pro version (I can almost buy Windows XP for the same price), I expected much more. Like working sound (even after it correctly identified my sound card (SBLIVE 5.1) there was not the slightest sound from the speakers, like a working GNOME, like correctly working disks. I tried GNOME 1st, then KDE, then tried to switch back to GNOME which then repeatedly failed to start :-( with an incomprehensible message. It also found my Highpoint raid controller both for the disk pair connected to the Raid controller, and also unfortunately for another disk which was not attached to the Raid controller and which I had not even enabled in the install. I also didn't like the install screen where it told me that I had two options: upgrade an existing SUSE installation or overwrite what was on my disks (which contained a working Linux install from another distribution). Both the manual install and the regular install lead back to the same threatening screen. I installed it three times, all with the same result: disappointment.It's not that I lack experience with Linux. I have been using linux since about 1993 (I started with SLS). I work as a UNIX sysadmin. When I pay that much I expect much more. I have been looking at various distributions lately trying to make a choice . I am now trying Slackware. If this doesn't work out then it is probably gentoo. I know Mandreake will work but it is now even more expensive than SUSE as you need a Silver level membership to get what you want. If the major Linux distributions are not careful they are going to price themselves out of business.
Review: SuSE Linux 9 (NewsForge) Posted Nov 13, 2003 22:50 UTC (Thu) by einstein (subscriber, #2052) [Link] Sounds like you have some hardware issues - you shouldn't judge SUSE on the troubles you're having getting it installed. I have it installed on several systems and find it to be fairly nice, just a bit different from the redhat + freshrpms systems I'm used to.You mentioned that ms windows, a pc operating system, is even more expensive than suse linux professional, a multiuser, unix-like operating system, yet thought that reflected badly on suse? I don't quite follow the logic there... I don't use ms windows, but from what I understand you'd have to pay quite a lot more to use it in the same way that you are allowed to use linux. and, in any event, you can always download the whole thing from their ftp site, if the $49 suse pro upgrade price is too rich for your tastes.
Review: SuSE Linux 9 (NewsForge) Posted Nov 14, 2003 0:17 UTC (Fri) by petegn (guest, #847) [Link] Well i have been using SuSE since early on about 5.2 i think it was alongwith other distros inbetween and suse blows em all away just upgraded from 8.2 to 9 with absolutley no problems at all .. My only gripe is that a friends install went ok apart from the pesky USB ADSL Modem darn things why they have to make em USflipping B I'll Never know whats wrong with Ethernet like the cable modems so darn simple why dont i live in a cable enabled area drat darn stupid adsl .. Pete .
Review: SuSE Linux 9 (NewsForge) Posted Nov 14, 2003 0:45 UTC (Fri) by paulfrancis (guest, #15494) [Link] I don't think the issues are with my hardware. The hardware works with both RH8 and Mandrake9.1. Things like the desktop and the hard disks should work out of the box. I am willing to put up with configuring X myself (and SUSE did this incorrectly as well) but I don't think I should have to correct disk problems especially when I told it what drives and partitions to use. I have a two year old PC (Athlon XP2000, 512MB memory, 4 x 7200RPM UDMA5 disks (not SATA) on a ABIT KG7 RAID motherboard and an NVIDIA FX5600 card with a Digital Flat Panel.My point about about the price of Windows XP and the price of SUSE is that they are almost the same. Why is SUSE priced the same? If I pay the same I want it to work out of the box like Windows. We are talking about home desktop systems here. I want to use my Linux box in the same way any Windows user uses their box. If you look at SUSE's web site they will tell you what great multimedia features and desktop features they offer. But unfortunately they don't work. I think you are lucky. You just happened to have compatible hardware that SUSE managed to support. I my case I was not so lucky. But it's not that I didn't do some research. My sound card is claimed to be supported by ALSAPLAYER. But it doesn't work with ALSAPLAYER. It is a very common (and fine) sound card. But it doesn't work with SUSE. And there's also no excuse for the disk problems. And the GNOME failure is a fatal blow. These are fundamental features which have to work at this price range.
Review: SuSE Linux 9 (NewsForge) Posted Nov 14, 2003 1:29 UTC (Fri) by einstein (subscriber, #2052) [Link] Why is SUSE priced the same?Actually it's even less expensive than windows, which is the remarkable thing. If I pay the same I want it to work out of the box like Windows. For most people it does - obviously your situation is unusual. I've installed it on a number of systems and simply don't see the issues you describe. OTOH I know many folks with tales of woe about how windows won't work for them. We are talking about home desktop systems here. I want to use my Linux box in the same way any Windows user uses their box. Not me - I want to do much more with linux than I can do with windows. If you look at SUSE's web site they will tell you what great multimedia features and desktop features they offer. But unfortunately they don't work. For most people they do - I don't know what youtr issues are, since I don't know the details of your system. But if you are looking only for something to be like windows, why not just keep using windows? I am using Linux because I want something better.
SuSE hardware issues Posted Nov 14, 2003 2:58 UTC (Fri) by vblum (guest, #1151) [Link] I have used SuSE for years, and your findings seem really unfortunate. Most stuff "justworks" ... But, they have their glitches, like everyone else ... I have seen some glitches with their X Server setup in much earlier releases, though - that I also remember having trouble with the sound configuration time and again, years ago; I Both these are long past for me, but I was always confused why they were issues at all ... And, they probably _are_ a KDE-oriented distribution, I am not sure many people use SUSE That your disks would not be configured correctly .... that seems wild. It also sounds like a good luck V.
Post Scriptum Posted Nov 14, 2003 3:02 UTC (Fri) by vblum (guest, #1151) [Link] PS: Are you really sure that installing Windows just works, in general? Last time I saw aprofessional install an OS by that name on new hardware, it seemed to take a day :-)
Review: SuSE Linux 9 (NewsForge) Posted Nov 14, 2003 7:44 UTC (Fri) by tomsi (subscriber, #2306) [Link] I think that it is you who are unlucky. And the reason might be your highpoint controller. I tried to install SUSE on a PC with a highpointIDE kontroller (PCI card) and the installer went crazy. (As I didn't need the card I removed it). I suggest that you also try to disable ACPI as the ACPI support doesn't always work properly. If you still have SUSE installed, try booting with the boot option acpi=off. I am one of the many users who have switched from RedHat to SUSE and have had more success with the latter lately. RH8/RH9/Fedora does have the best looking user interface though.
Review: SuSE Linux 9 (NewsForge) Posted Nov 14, 2003 12:03 UTC (Fri) by zipdisk (guest, #8589) [Link] WIndows XP: US$100Office XP(Upgrade): US$300 Bunch of applications: US$200 (this includes winzip, a fine antivirus and stuff like that) Total Price: US$500 SuSE Pro: US$79.95 is your math different from mine? or am i missing something?
Review: SuSE Linux 9 (NewsForge) Posted Nov 14, 2003 20:49 UTC (Fri) by UncleWarthog (guest, #12337) [Link] WIndows XP: US$100Office XP(Upgrade): US$300 Bunch of applications: US$200 (this includes winzip, a fine antivirus and stuff like that) Total Price: US$500 SuSE Pro: US$79.95 Mentally giving Bill Gates the finger: priceless. Seriously, though, SuSE Pro for about $80, is a wonderful value. It's even better when you realize that the personal version for $40 ships with everything you would need to have to use it as a Windows desktop (and Microsoft Office) replacement. You can also get an update version of SuSE Pro (box and discs but no dead-tree versions of all the documentation) for about the half the price. Also keep in mind that these are list prices; most retailers selling over the web are selling it for less. I think Amazon sells it for somewhete between $65 and $70 for the Pro version. As far as compatible hardware goes, I've found current versions of SuSE to be fairly compatible with everything I've thrown it at. I use a SBLive audio card myself and don't have the kind of problems described. (A hint on something to look at if you haven't already: open the Kmix {audio mixer} program and look at how the levels are set. I've occasionally seen them set too low so that it only seems like there's no sound.) I wouldn't expect it to be compatible with everything that Windows is compatible with; Some hardware is developed only for Windows yet Linux has good support for some of that too.
Review: SuSE Linux 9 (NewsForge) Posted Nov 15, 2003 9:19 UTC (Sat) by ctg (subscriber, #3459) [Link] You forgot all the development tools and languages, all the databases, all the mail servers, the web servers, the sound/media development stuff etc.You're looking at more like $15,000+
Review: SuSE Linux 9 (NewsForge) Posted Nov 14, 2003 8:39 UTC (Fri) by macc (subscriber, #510) [Link] Did you RTFM? ;-) The Handbook is pretty detailed on this.You should have had an item "Expert Setup of HD's" on the screen? Sound: Alsa in SuSE comes "muted" , did you have a look at a mixer app?
Please stop this bogus math Posted Nov 16, 2003 15:15 UTC (Sun) by walterbyrd (guest, #11620) [Link] I have seen these tpes of total BS calculations on many linux forums. It's total crap, and it's time for it to stop.========================================= SuSE Pro: US$79.95 XP raises the cost of a new computer about $100 and that's it. You don't have to buy any upgrades and there is tons of free software for windows: including zip/unzip applications, AV applications and so on. Actually XP doesn't seem to need an unzip application. Most people keep the same OS for over three years. That means that XP costs you less than $35 a year. Lots of linux users spend more than that. BTW: for me, one of the keys reasons I like is the abundance of great freeware. I favor small, fast applications, some of favorites: 1by1, offby1, spread32, CetusWordPad, ZoomPlayer, popcorn, and iScribe.
Fud from the microsoft trolls Posted Nov 16, 2003 21:00 UTC (Sun) by einstein (subscriber, #2052) [Link] XP raises the cost of a new computer about $100 and that's it.Actually it raises it quite a bit more once you take into account the higher cost of ownership over time, with either the lost productivity due to viruses, or the cost of keeping your peecee antivirus software up to date, take your pick - you will pay, one way or the other. Most windoze users also need an office suite, and ms office is supposedly the only one they find acceptable, so there goes another several hundred bucks. Of course, the major cost of using ms windows is that, well, I'd be stuck using ms windows :( Most people keep the same OS for over three years. That means that XP costs you less than $35 a year. Lots of linux users spend more than that. Lots of linux users spend $0 keeping their systems up to date, while some spend more - that's the thing about linux, you can spend as much or as little as you want,depending on what you like. Those who spend more for linux, e.g. the city of Muenchen, prove that the appeal of linux is NOT about price, but about far more important features - the price of a linux distro, which is normally quite reasonable, is just one minor perk in the big picture.
Please stop this bogus math Posted Nov 16, 2003 21:20 UTC (Sun) by pblanco (guest, #16087) [Link] You seem to have forgotten the cost of development tools, image manipulation,multimedia tools and other packages that you get along with your Linux distro. I'd bet that $500 is a little light for outfitting a Windows release with the same level of functionality that you get for $80 from SuSE. The $100 over the cost of a new computer that you mentioned basically allows you to boot the thing and connect to the Internet... you'll end up spending quite a bit more than the $100 if you want to do anything useful with your new system.
Please stop this bogus math Posted Nov 20, 2003 9:34 UTC (Thu) by duck (guest, #4444) [Link] Yes, please let's stop the crappy calcualation:- You have a flatrate, and you can wait for a few weeks? Than even SuSE Linux is available for free (ftp-Install, should be available in 3-5 days). - You do not have a flatrate or can not do an ftp-install? Copy the CDs from somebody, it is legal. - You stick to what is offered, do not want to mess around with the system? Than invest 0 $ once, and then stick to it for 2 years. Then either do an update (if you did not mess around), or do a fresh install. During that time, get all updates for free, without registration, if you want in an automated way. - You like SUSE, and want to support them, you like to give away manuals after reading them to make Linux easier for beginners? Then buy every single SuSE, and spend more than a naked Windows costs per year. Or do something inbetween. But do not try to tell me that Linux is as expensive as Windows, because it is only if you decide to spent the money Cheers
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