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The price of GNU/Linux is good ?The price of GNU/Linux is good ?Posted Nov 13, 2003 2:38 UTC (Thu) by khim (subscriber, #9252)In reply to: fud fud fud by coriordan Parent article: Microsoft Loses to Linux in Thailand Struggle (LinuxInsider)
Come on! Do you really think price is good for poorer countries ? Really ? Not jocking ? You mean... really... gosh... Here is priceing in my country: Now the big question: what's more expensive ? Clearly Linux is. Why so ? Answer is obvious: there more CDs. Only one CD for "Windows bundles", three for RedHat (only binary CDs, of course, no offer of source or even link to ftp.redhat.com), seven CDs for Debian (with some discount for so many CDs included for RedHat and Debian). Yes, it's not legal, yes, it's piracy. 90% users do not care. They do care about support. They know there are plenty of firms who'll help with Windows (for price, obviously - $2 does not include any support as you can guess). There much less firms where you can ask questions about Linux. So no, guys. At least pricing argument goes out the window in poor countries. Simple there Windows is actually cheaper then Linux.
Of course for Windows you need MS Office - $2 more (usually only first disk is ever duplicated). Still it's cheaper then Linux. And yes, people are content with BSOD: they do not know anything else. For them BSOD is how computers are designed, not something to talk about. I've seed as some guy complained about "total rip-off" - Sonic Scenarist NT 2.7 for $7 two weeks after release. And you know what ? He was right: two weeks later it was possible to buy it for "standard" $2 Situation in Thailand is probably the same - just "standard price" per CD is probably lower. Still the principle is the same: Linux is clearly more expensive there: more CDs - more money Yes, some firms were raided and now Linux is usually what installed on PC (that - or PTSDOS). Not to be used but to be replaced by the same firms who will help you to tune your Windows. That's how far this concern gone. Yes, there are some major firms (Lukoil and some other) where all software is not pirated. There are even some small firms (usually offsprings of western companies) where everything is legal. Still for majority of population Windows is $2 and Linux $5 or more
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Re: The price of GNU/Linux is good ? Posted Nov 13, 2003 2:51 UTC (Thu) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] Hate to reply on my own post but...
...there are changes. While most Linuxes are more expensive then Windows here (more CDs == more expensive, it's that simple) at least they are there to buy. RedHat, SuSe, Mandrake, Debian, Lindows - your choice. Lindows is least expensive, Debian most expensive (number of CDs, remember?), but it's there. So Linux is expanding here. Just not very fast. And yes, games are important. Also important "1C book-keeping" (does not work with WINE since WINE does not support neither Win9X's "HASP Emulator" not WinNT's "HASP Emulator"), Garant Database (law database - the same problems with "HASP Emulator") and so on. All tools are Windows-only so far.
The price of GNU/Linux is good ? Posted Nov 13, 2003 3:54 UTC (Thu) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link] This is the old "Free cigarettes for students" marketing idea.Get a country hooked in it's early (computer-)development stages, make sure MS Windows becomes the national standard, then they start demanding that the bigger firms pay licenses, then the smaller firms, then the people. They lock people in with file formats and user-experience. The $2 cost of M$ Windows is nothing compared to the investment people put into the monopoly through usage. Free Software will much (much, much, etc.) cheaper in the long run. And remember, when license fees begin to be enforced, it's money leaving the poorer country, going to the US. Microsoft is *letting* countries pirate MS Windows, they can pull in the reins whenever they want. US govt. trade pressure and the WTO will make sure that countries comply. National govts. should be acting against this by encouraging the use of Free Software. Until this happens, people need to take matters into their own hands, and they need to tell the govt. about this problem.
The price of GNU/Linux is good ? Posted Nov 13, 2003 7:36 UTC (Thu) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] US govt. trade pressure and the WTO will make sure that countries comply. Heh. The big question is when. I've heard this talks about pressure and compliance for 10 years now. Nothing is really changed. Both films and software is out two weeks after release: films for $4 per DVD or so, CD with software - $2 (in some places slightly more). Oh, no, I forgot: now the same firms who are distributing copies for $2 are distributing also copies for $30 and $20000 (I do not know for the fact that it's the same firm but I know for the fact that number of batch on CDs/DVDs is the same). Of course firms regularly claims they were hijacked - but somehow noone can find who did it! The same with software licenses: Ok, now computer makers can not install Windows (there are raids and so on). Ok, they sell you comp with PTSDOS or Linux and paper with phone of firm who'll install you Windows for the same $2 (if you are to unexpirienced to to it yourself - of course in this case you'll not get nice shiny CD, but it's not such a big need if you do not know how to install Windows from said CD). Thay can even give you paper to show in court as "prof of purchase" ! Of course it'll be revealed there that thay had no right to give you such a paper - but who cares ? You do not need to worry till actual need and even then you need only to remove Windows and next day call to install new copy with new paper. There are big difference between "cigarettes for students". The difference is that almost no one else wants to stop it and sell you cigaretes for some "real money". The only obvious exception is Microsoft subsidary. Yes, sure some laws are introduced to "stop piracy". But no one really think it's laws to be respected. This is just some play for "big boys". Flick. That's what it is. Thus raids with obligatory notification of sellers few hours (at least) before fact and so on. When almost every person who's not in police thinks it's his responsibility to prevent "this stupidity" and policy is doing it only since they are forced to do it while "deep in their soul" they know "it's not right" there are very little what you can do. While I myself may use Linux and do not need to cover my friends who use Windows I'm pretty sure I will not go and will not say that someone is using pirated version of Windows if I have any way to avoid it. It's very hard to do anything in country where it's the most loyal view of software copyright and most typical view is "copyright is something developed by americans to suck our money and we need to cope with this @#&*#$*!@& as much as we can". Country goverment can do only so much without any populace help and with only very reluctant help from police (they do only as much as then need to do to comply with letter of law and could care less about what they really supposed to do). Especially when half of that some goverment share this view and not voice it only since they know it'll disaster for their carier. To change this you'll need years and years. It's not matter of just changing of laws. That's not enough. You need to change mindset before it actually will work. Because after 10 years only very few even huge companies are truly compliant - most just have papers who are too hard to prove illegal.
The price of GNU/Linux is good ? Posted Nov 13, 2003 14:32 UTC (Thu) by coriordan (guest, #7544) [Link] First, thanks for describing the situation to me.> The big question is when. Sadly, I think the answer is "whenever they think the time is right". In Korea, copying the work of an author was seen as a compliment, encouraged by the government, until the US Trade Representative but Korea on the 301 "Watch list". This is a list of countries where the US is concerned about "Intellectual property" enforcement. When a country goes on the watch list, the International Monetary Fund don't roll over their loans, the World Bank stop loaning them money, and the US Govt. raises it's import barriers. This can cripple a developing economy instantly. And it's all legal since the World Trade Organisation has already tricked these countries into promising to enforce "Intellectual Property" regulations. > I will not go and will not say that someone This is good. Copying software should not be a crime, I wouldn't like anyone to go to prison or be fined for it. Also, it's sad that a developing country should be using the peoples taxes to enforce these stupid laws. > copyright is something developed by americans to suck our money This is true (for the current version of software copyright). Using GNU/Linux and FreeBSD etc. is a way to take this power away from them. By using Free Software, a country can stick two fingers up at Microsft & associates, and no one can accuse them of not enforcing copyright. Moving to Free Software will indeed take years, but every step towards Free Software is lessening the copyright problem. Using Microsoft (or any other proprietary software) is like trying to dig your way out of a pit. I'm trying to get the govt. to use Free Software in my country. Most representatives I talk to are useless, but some of them do understand Free Software and are really interested.
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