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Three (more) things that need fixing for Linux to work on the desktop

From:  Paul Sheer <psheer-AT-icon.co.za>
To:  letters-AT-lwn.net
Subject:  Three (more) things that need fixing for Linux to work on the desktop
Date:  05 Nov 2003 11:42:15 +0200
Cc:  psheer-AT-icon.co.za

 
Yesterday I tried to listen to a radio station over streaming audio
that happens to only broadcast in an adjacent province. The
procedure on an Apple or Windows box is as simple as doing a
double-click on the URL. Under RedHat, I assumed that my expertise
(i.e. rute.2038bug.com) would be sufficient. Here is the procedure:
 
    1. Right click on the URL to copy the link location
    2. Do a google search to try figure out what kind of
        Free application would play this. Mplayer seemed like
        the thing.
    3. Read through the install guide and download three
        rpm files.
    4. Installed only to discover they had bad signatures.
    5. Read through the rpm man page to learn how to turn
        off signature checking.
    6. One of the rpm's was corrupted. Rpmfind.net revealed
        an alternative copy.
    7. Try to install again, but now it seems I need the SDL
        library >= 1.1.7
    8. Located, downloaded and installed libSDL 1.1.7.
    9. SDL library needs to be over version .so.1.2
    10. located the latest SDL library, downloaded, and
        installed.
    11. Install mplayer rpm's with the --nosignature option
    12. Read the mplayer man page.
    13. Run mplayer with mms://<site>:8080 as required.
    14. mplayer says something about its cache and sits
        there for 10 minutes producing no sound.
    15. Check my sound modules, run aumix, and test that
        sound is working fine with,
            play /usr/share/sounds/KDE_Beep_Beep.wav
    16. Search mplayer man page for anything about "cache"ing
    17. Run mplayer with a smaller cache option.
    18. Mplayer says "ASF file format detected" ...
        "Cannot find codec for audio format 0xA."
    19. In the mplayer FAQ section under "2.1.2.4. WMA/ASF files"
        there is no text, and the mailing list archives do not
        have much about it.
 
I mean no disrespect to the Mplayer developers: they have done a
truly outstanding job. This is a systemic problem to do with
proprietary-ness of formats. It is also simply a matter of fact
that: on an Apple or Windows machine I simply double-click, whereas
on Linux, I spend over four hours fiddling, and still cannot listen
to this really nice radio station.
 
The industry will *always* be coming out with new formats,
hardware, and protocols. How is the Free software community
going to keep up?
 
I had the identical problem with a Logitech camera (although with a
bit of kernel hacking I managed to get it to work: 16+ hours later).
An HP USB scanner I bought I could not get working (unsupported by
Sane: 2 hours) and resorted to installing Windows just to scan stuff
in (1 hour install, 30 minutes to get the scanning working).
 
Most of the sites *I* visit work perfectly under either Konqueror,
Mozilla or Opera; BUT most of the sites my trancing 16-year-old
cousin visits are completely unreadable with anything except IE.
They have so much javascript, flash, audio, etc. they don't even
come up at all.
 
Any company that is considering donating money to "Open Source"
needs to have a serious look at these issues above any others. It is
insufficient to look at Linux "on-the-desktop" from the perspective
of an Emacs user. A critical mass of users is surely going to
require such basic features as I have described.
 
And I haven't even got started discussing the deficiencies in
OpenOffice *sigh*. Stay tuned....
 
-paul
 


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Three (more) things that need fixing for Linux to work on the desktop

Posted Nov 6, 2003 1:19 UTC (Thu) by torsten (guest, #4137) [Link]

"Any company that is considering donating money to "Open Source" needs to have a serious look at these issues above any others."

How about when it comes to individuals doing work in their spare time? Maybe they could use a helping hand? Or are you good enough to list the their problems, but not good enough to help solve them?

Three (more) things that need fixing for Linux to work on the desktop

Posted Nov 6, 2003 1:25 UTC (Thu) by zooko (subscriber, #2589) [Link]

Steps 3 through 11 can be replaced with "3. sudo apt-get install mplayer" on Debian-testing.

Three (more) things that need fixing for Linux to work on the desktop

Posted Nov 6, 2003 2:07 UTC (Thu) by JoeBuck (subscriber, #2330) [Link]

Not just Debian testing: Red Hat users (any version from 7.2 through 9) can go to http://freshrpms.net/ and download and install apt, and then say

apt-get install mplayer

as well. Apt is not just for Debian anymore.

Three (more) things that need fixing for Linux to work on the desktop

Posted Nov 6, 2003 8:41 UTC (Thu) by ekj (subscriber, #1524) [Link]

You've got the wrong distro.

In Debian, you'd need to have non-free added and then do "apt-get install mplayer". In Mandrake, you'd need to have the contrib-repository added and then do "urpmi mplayer".

Redhat is not Linux. Actually to me it seems that RedHat is falling more and more behind in the userfriendly newbie-distro which is what you want if ease of use and "just works" is important to you. Indeed RedHat has abandoned it's desktop-users more or less and are now refocusing even more on the server.

Three (more) things that need fixing for Linux to work on the desktop

Posted Nov 6, 2003 3:02 UTC (Thu) by flewellyn (subscriber, #5047) [Link]

For this, I just do one step:

1) Point XMMS at the URL for the audio stream.

Simple, effective, and it really really works.

Three (more) things that need fixing for Linux to work on the desktop

Posted Nov 6, 2003 6:18 UTC (Thu) by ctg (subscriber, #3459) [Link]

....Double click on the URL
Hmmm. You seem to know as little about Windows and MacOS X as you do about Linux.

Red Hat isn't Linux. It is one specific server oriented distribution with relatively little support for third party multi-media applications

Trying buying something Like SuSE (or even another of the desktop distributions like Lindows*) - paying them for support and phoning them up with your problems. Then everyone will be happy.

Remember that Linux support for hardware and closed protocols is not going to be as good as Windows - not for a long time. Unfortunately, it is quite hard to do anything about this - except by not using those particular pieces of hardware/software

*I've not tried Lindows, but it aims to be the sort of thing you seem to need. Although you might do better with something with Crossover plugin installed if you want to run Windows Media Player or Quicktime streams.

Three (more) things that need fixing for Linux to work on the

Posted Nov 6, 2003 8:03 UTC (Thu) by arcticwolf (guest, #8341) [Link]

Maybe it's just me, but the only problem you seem to have is that mplayer is not installed, and that it's a bit of a PITA to set up correctly.

Three (more) things that need fixing for Linux to work on the desktop

Posted Nov 6, 2003 17:05 UTC (Thu) by openhacker (subscriber, #1614) [Link]

I dunno...

On linux things sometimes work really smoothly (pleasantly so).

My windows machines sometimes take 4 hours to get things
straightened out (if ever).

I've never used -nosignature on rpm -- maybe a sign
something else is wrong?

apt-get is not going to WRITE driver code for you

Posted Nov 6, 2003 18:21 UTC (Thu) by paulsheer (guest, #3925) [Link]

apt-get is not going to write GPL'd codec support either.
Neither is apt-get going to buy out Microsoft's patent on
a streaming media format.

-paul

Good Lord!

Posted Nov 13, 2003 17:34 UTC (Thu) by guym@arizona.edu (guest, #14981) [Link]

Please. If you want to keep up to date with all the latest proprietary formats, use a proprietary operating system!

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