Posted Sep 12, 2013 22:35 UTC (Thu) by maxiaojun (subscriber, #91482)
In reply to: Intel and XMir by robclark
Parent article: Intel and XMir
> It is mainly just a matter of installer/packaging rather than being different code paths that aren't even compiled on other distros.
Seems like you have major problem with code paths. The fact is that many many software support multiple backend no problem.
> But none of this means there is any "political story" here. I probably won't be able to convince anyone who wants to see a political controversy here otherwise, anymore than I could convince some people that there are not aliens in area-51. But I strongly suspect the real behind the scenes story here is a lot more boring... A pointy-haired-boss somewhere realized that it would cost extra $$ and staffing to maintain the xmir support. So out it went.
Oh, cool, the fancy "boss" understand the issue of Mir and Wayland better than the driver developer.
>And anyways, where is the problem in that? Intel funds most of the devel and testing for intel drivers, so it is their decision to make. Let the mir and xmir developers, who have the right environment for test/devel maintain the patch. No one forced them to choose to make mir.
Posted Sep 12, 2013 23:19 UTC (Thu) by pizza (subscriber, #46)
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> Seems like you have major problem with code paths. The fact is that many many software support multiple backend no problem.
This statement conveys that you have little to no experience writing, testing, or supporting software, yet you presume to tell others how it should or shouldn't be done.
Which, incidentally, sums up your attitude in this thread. What I find sad is that in doing so, you are engaging in the very behavior that you are ascribing to others. (This is a phenomenon known as "projection", BTW)
Intel and XMir
Posted Sep 12, 2013 23:55 UTC (Thu) by maxiaojun (subscriber, #91482)
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> This statement conveys that you have little to no experience writing, testing, or supporting software
So what kind of experience do you have? Never able to get software working using multiple backends?
> yet you presume to tell others how it should or shouldn't be done.
I'm never say that Intel must accept XMir patch in the first place. The problem is that it is reverted by "the management", not by the driver developer. Then you try to reconstruct a technical reason for that. It is history revisionism at best.
Intel and XMir
Posted Sep 13, 2013 0:18 UTC (Fri) by pizza (subscriber, #46)
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> So what kind of experience do you have? Never able to get software working using multiple backends?
I have fourteen years worth of cross-platform software development experience. And yes, "cross-platform" includes, but is not limited to, "multiple backends".
Intel and XMir
Posted Sep 12, 2013 23:58 UTC (Thu) by robclark (subscriber, #74945)
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>> It is mainly just a matter of installer/packaging rather than being different code paths that aren't even compiled on other distros.
> Seems like you have major problem with code paths. The fact is that many many software support multiple backend no problem.
My point here is that it is codepaths that you cannot even compile test without a different distro setup.
Many successful upstream projects also drop backends which they cannot maintain, fwiw.
>> But none of this means there is any "political story" here. I probably won't be able to convince anyone who wants to see a political controversy here otherwise, anymore than I could convince some people that there are not aliens in area-51. But I strongly suspect the real behind the scenes story here is a lot more boring... A pointy-haired-boss somewhere realized that it would cost extra $$ and staffing to maintain the xmir support. So out it went.
> Oh, cool, the fancy "boss" understand the issue of Mir and Wayland better than the driver developer.
I have been a professional sw developer long enough to see this sort of scenario play out before. Developer wants to add support for some new OS/environment/whatever, QA lead speaks up and says that it will require X additional manpower per release, and Y additional hw setups to test this, head boss crunches the budget/schedule numbers, and decides that it is not possible.
As a developer, I think "great, I can implement this code in a weekend, let's do it!", but I didn't take into account the long term maintenance/QA cost.
Maybe I am disappointed by this. But the boss is the one taking into account the other factors. I don't have to like the decision. But it certainly doesn't make it some big conspiracy.
>> And anyways, where is the problem in that? Intel funds most of the devel and testing for intel drivers, so it is their decision to make. Let the mir and xmir developers, who have the right environment for test/devel maintain the patch. No one forced them to choose to make mir.
> Yes, your god Intel can do whatever no problem
I do not work for intel, I am not affiliated with intel, and they are certainly not my god. I *am* a happy user of intel graphics. And I'm appreciative of the massive development and QA effort they put in. Desktop linux graphics would not be where it is if it weren't for this, and I think others should be more appreciative of what intel does for linux.
I'm just trying (perhaps in vain) to bring a voice of reason to this silly fud-fest that ubuntu/canonical has started.
Intel and XMir
Posted Oct 1, 2013 13:10 UTC (Tue) by JanC_ (guest, #34940)
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My point here is that it is codepaths that you cannot even compile test without a different distro setup.
Many successful upstream projects also drop backends which they cannot maintain, fwiw.
What if you consider the Canonical employees as part of upstream, as maintainers (both development & QA) for that part of the code? It's not like Linus, the Linux Foundation, or any of the other linux developers have hardware to compile & test all linux architectures, drivers & features for example...
Of course, if at some point in time Mir-related problems start to accumulate and nobody fixes them (if it becomes unmaintained), then you should drop support for it.