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Google is defragging Android (ars technica)
Ars technica has posted a
look at the new "Google Play Services" mechanism running on most
Android devices. "Google's strategy is clear. Play Services has
system-level powers, but it's updatable. It's part of the Google apps
package, so it's not open source. OEMs are not allowed to modify it, making
it completely under Google's control. Play Services basically acts as a
shim between the normal apps and the installed Android OS. Right now Play
Services handles the Google Maps API, Google Account syncing, remote wipe,
push messages, the Play Games back end, and many other duties. If you ever
question the power of Google Play Services, try disabling it. Nearly every
Google App on your device will break."
(Log in to post comments)
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 3:54 UTC (Tue) by dilinger (subscriber, #2867) [Link]
Luckily, with Cyanogenmod, F-Droid, OsmAnd (for maps), normal imaps email, Xabber (for xmpp), and Offline Calendar, one can happily live without the gapps ecosystem.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 8:05 UTC (Tue) by bytelicker (guest, #92320) [Link]
I agree, it is entirely possible to live the Android ecosystem without being bound to Google. In fact try installing a non-stock ROM and you'll find the Google specific stuff is not even bundled; by request from Google. You will have to install it yourself. So it could be far worse.
Also, I think it makes perfect sense that Google specific apps will break when you remove/disable Play store and other Google services.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 15:12 UTC (Tue) by debacle (subscriber, #7114) [Link]
This is exactly how I use my telephone: CM + F-Droid + Xabber + Firefox + OSMAnd + offline calendar. No Google account at all, hence no Google apps. No transmission of friends contact data to non-friends servers.
I'm very grateful to Google that they created a system that gives me freedom of choice. Compare this with the Apple prison!
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 13, 2013 16:16 UTC (Fri) by daglwn (subscriber, #65432) [Link]
OsmAnd is completely unintelligible to me. How do I use navigation with it? I have to load the right map set for the trip I want first, then do some magic on a screen completely different from the map itself and then ???.
I would love to use OSM but the OsmAnd interface is just terrible.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 17, 2013 23:28 UTC (Tue) by scientes (guest, #83068) [Link]
I find it invaluable for its good offline maps + GPS. Only way I can use GPS to it's full extent.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 17, 2013 23:43 UTC (Tue) by hummassa (subscriber, #307) [Link]
If you *do* use it, please answer the parent poster's questions.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 7:04 UTC (Tue) by Felix.Braun (subscriber, #3032) [Link] While ars makes the whole process sound like a good thing ("Your device is constantly getting better without your having to do anything or wait for a third party"), I am sure people here will agree with me that this sounds rather scary. Of course, cutting OEMs and carriers out of the update loop is a good thing. But cutting the user out of it, is much less so. If significant portions of the API are moved into closed source components, the Android ecosystem moves closer and closer in appearance to Apple's walled garden. I cannot help but wonder, whether a more open ecosystem (much like the Linux desktop ecosystem) really isn't viable in the mass market. We'll have to wait for Jolla, Tizen and FirefoxOS to see. But it sure doesn't look promising.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 8:09 UTC (Tue) by RCL (guest, #63264) [Link]
There's no question that being 100% open isn't viable. Part of the platform appeal (for both developers and users) is being uniform (saves costs of developing and makes your experience more predictable), which implies certain limit on how much you can customize your setup.
Also, being totally DRM-less isn't viable due to a natural disproportion between number of "producers" and number of "consumers" (1:99 or even more) which means that at least some protection is needed to allow "creative 1%" to live off their work.
In other words, you need some kind of control over your ecosystem for pretty much the same reasons why you need police and judicial system in a society - to enforce laws in a, ideally, uniform way. That said, Google seems to be finding a good compromise - it is not turning its platform into "police state", but just tries to contain anarchy.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 8:47 UTC (Tue) by robert_s (subscriber, #42402) [Link]
>There's no question that being 100% open isn't viable.
Huh?
>Also, being totally DRM-less isn't viable due to...
Insistence on DRM is totally cultural, and cultural by-industry. The music industry has largely decided that offering DRM-less formats is ok and things work Just Fine. The movie industry is still lost in this world of brain-damage.
>the same reasons why you need police and judicial system in a society...
This is a bit scary. I didn't elect Google as my police and judiciary, and I don't think most people who purchase android devices knowingly did either. The reason police and judiciary systems work is they are (supposedly) ultimately accountable to the people they hold power over. What accountability does Google have to its users? The only responsibility Google has is to maximize its revenues.
And I don't buy a "free market" answer to that one either, implying Google will want to retain its users by keeping them happy and that unhappy users can always just leave - that argument is akin to "unhappy citizens can just emigrate" - not always easy & practical for many people. And at some point it will become in Google's interest to make it as painful as possible to leave.
It is possible to live life without a strongman dictator.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 9:20 UTC (Tue) by Karellen (subscriber, #67644) [Link]
"I didn't elect Google as my police and judiciary, and I don't think most people who purchase android devices knowingly did either"
When you buy a device, you're voting with your wallet, electing whoever you buy from as your feudal lord[0]. Whether this is a good or bad thing for you depends on your circumstances, but Schneier gives some good arguments as to how, for many people who aren't interested in technology, creating content, or security, and simply want a device that Just Works, that this really can be a worthwhile tradeoff.
The "knowingly" part is a bit of a sticking point, but people make decisions every day that they don't fully understand all the consequences of. Heck, the way people vote in acutal elections is not entirely based on a rational comparison of every detail of the respective candidates platforms and their possible consequences. But that's not a reason to say they shouldn't be able to vote, for their own protection.
[0] https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/12/feudal_sec...
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 14:38 UTC (Tue) by jpnp (subscriber, #63341) [Link]
Schneier's article seems to be arguing the opposite, that just as real feudal systems over time evolved to include rights and protections for serfs as well as privilege for the lords, so the digital feudal lords should be limited in what they can do to further their own corporate aims.
Sadly, right now, those in the state who might be helping seem rather more interested in using their powers to force the corporations to spy on us for them too.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 17:00 UTC (Tue) by robert_s (subscriber, #42402) [Link]
Yes, thank you for illustrating the "free market" argument that I addressed in my comment.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 22:05 UTC (Tue) by Karellen (subscriber, #67644) [Link]
But unlike actual serfs in feudal lands, no-one is born in the land of Google.
Yes, Google probably will try to raise switching costs and lock people into the platform, but you don't seem to be taking account of the fact that everyone *starts off* as free citizens. They made some kind of trade-off for themselves to make that initial totally voluntary pledge to Google (or Apple, or Facebook, or Microsoft) when they could pick another lord, or none at all - e.g. with a "feature" phone, or no mobile phone at all! (It's possible.)
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 22:16 UTC (Tue) by Karellen (subscriber, #67644) [Link]
Sorry, I should have put this in the same reply above, but I think that Schneier's point isn't that the free market based competition between providers will make them not suck. Rather, for many people, even a really sucky zero-privacy, locked-down, locked-in but pretty and secure consumer experience is still better for many than a relatively-free ugly system you are unable to secure yourself[0], or no system at all.
Any incremental benefits one Feudal Lord may have over another can be inconsequential compared to roaming the countryside fending for yourself, if you have no survival skills, or any interest in acquiring them for their own sake.
[0] e.g. Windows - which might not be Free Software, but for which you are free to install any application from anywhere on the internet, and free to develop your own applications without the need for signing any particular licence agreements or going through any gatekeepers.
vote in acutal elections Posted Sep 3, 2013 19:10 UTC (Tue) by Wol (guest, #4433) [Link]
The trouble with that is when the choice you have is "which is the lesser of two evils?".
How would an American vote in Europe? Our mainstream right-wing parties are to the LEFT of the Democrats!
Or to take a real-life example - me. When I went to vote in my last parliamentary election, I didn't even have a candidate available to me in my party of choice!
Okay, we do have the option of standing ourselves, it's not that expensive, but I have TWO characteristics for me, that would demonstrate how "democratic" an election is. One characteristic of a good system is "how many people are represented by the candidate they voted for". That is a GOOD metric (but easily subverted by a dictatorship - just have one candidate per election!). The second metric is "how many candidates stand a REAL chance of being elected". Not sure how to measure that, but in the UK for most constituencies that figure is pretty close to ONE. Not that much different from a dictatorship, really ... The US probably isn't much different.
Cheers,
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 10:36 UTC (Tue) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] Insistence on DRM is totally cultural, and cultural by-industry. The music industry has largely decided that offering DRM-less formats is ok and things work Just Fine. The movie industry is still lost in this world of brain-damage. DRM requirement swings back and forth. Books were historically totally free yet today they usually are sold with [relatively easily removable] DRM. The fact that DRM is even legal is a problem: it's totally not needed and it does far more harm then good. But as long as it's legal platforms without DRM support are DOA: 90% users don't care about DRM at all but they do care about availability of their favorite show and/or book. The reason police and judiciary systems work is they are (supposedly) ultimately accountable to the people they hold power over. Not really. They work because people believe they are better off with them then without them. Think about it: they work even in countries with absolute monarchy or dictatorship where they most definitely are "not ultimately accountable to the people they hold power over". As long as people are not too upset they will accept police and judiciary systems, if they are upset they will rebel, it's as simple as that. What accountability does Google have to its users? See above. Google may not be all that accountable WRT its users but it's most definitely accountable WRT people in power (who can change the law if it's really needed). That's enough for the system to work.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 12:44 UTC (Tue) by Klavs (subscriber, #10563) [Link]
quote: The music industry has largely decided that offering DRM-less formats is ok and things work Just Fine. The movie industry is still lost in this world of brain-damage.
And today - the DRM in music is back - as spotify and similar, is the new "bread'n'butter" of the industry - and they use DRM - so you can only use their players to play etc.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 19:36 UTC (Tue) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]
To be fair, I don't see how Spotify is possible without DRM of some kind. It would be way too easy to download songs and stop paying for subscription without DRM.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 19:44 UTC (Tue) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]
The benefit you are paying for though is just to have everything in one place, ease of use wins, regardless of whether you are using DRM or not.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 20:53 UTC (Tue) by hummassa (subscriber, #307) [Link]
> I don't see how Spotify is possible without DRM of some kind.
It would keep producing good quality music? If you download the entire library, but next month you have tons of good new titles available, why would you stop paying for subscription?
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 4, 2013 9:44 UTC (Wed) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] It would be way too easy to download songs and stop paying for subscription without DRM. It's easy enough to do with DRM, too. There are tons of manuals on the internet. Really, DRM is needed for Spotify but it's role is not to prevent illegal downloading, but to make it slightly harder and thus placate content right owners.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 16:59 UTC (Tue) by robert_s (subscriber, #42402) [Link]
>Think about it: they work even in countries with absolute monarchy or dictatorship where they most definitely are "not ultimately accountable to the people they hold power over".
If you read my post you'll see that I have "thought about it" - strongman dictatorships are not a state I would consider to be "ok". I should perhaps have said "The reason police and judiciary systems work _in countries that we would generally agree are a pleasant place to live_".
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 17:49 UTC (Tue) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] I should perhaps have said "The reason police and judiciary systems work _in countries that we would generally agree are a pleasant place to live_". Which will only cloud issue further. Which country is "generally a pleasant place to live" depends on people: there guys who move from US to China, or from Switzerland to Belarus (I personally know few examples of both). Even if we'll decide to count number of people who "vote with their feet" we'll find out that Monaco (which is monarchy) beats many other countries where "police and judiciary systems work is they are (supposedly) ultimately accountable to the people they hold power over" and lots of guys find Brunei or Saudi Arabia (which is an absolute monarchy) more pleasant then, say, Iraq or Turkey. Frankly there are very strong correlation between median income of citizens in a given country and it's "pleasantness" while correlation between "accountability … to the people" and "pleasantness" is laughably weak.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 12:16 UTC (Tue) by NAR (subscriber, #1313) [Link] The music industry has largely decided that offering DRM-less formats is ok and things work Just Fine. The movie industry is still lost in this world of brain-damage.I think by the time the music industry decided it, there were already MP3 players out there (both in hardware and software), while for movies I think there are still more DVD than AVI players. Also the music industry lost half of its size in the last decade while the movie industry grew, so maybe they did it right...
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 4, 2013 11:12 UTC (Wed) by Seegras (subscriber, #20463) [Link]
> Also the music industry lost half of its size in the last
> decade while the movie industry grew
Nope. The music _industry_ might have lost, but the fact is that there are _more_ musicians out there.
So basically, the music-trade has become more "free-market" ;)
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 4, 2013 12:32 UTC (Wed) by NAR (subscriber, #1313) [Link] That was exactly my point: the music industry did shrink and genres like stadium rock (which do depend on an industry) are dying out (although not only due to downloading MP3s).
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 4, 2013 13:10 UTC (Wed) by hummassa (subscriber, #307) [Link]
And that is bad because... ⸘‽
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 9, 2013 15:28 UTC (Mon) by Arker (guest, #14205) [Link]
"There's no question that being 100% open isn't viable."
That sounds like the exact opposite of the truth, and certainly at the least is an extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary evidence, and I see no evidence of any kind for it.
"Also, being totally DRM-less isn't viable due to a natural disproportion between number of "producers" and number of "consumers" (1:99 or even more) which means that at least some protection is needed to allow "creative 1%" to live off their work."
You're smuggling in some very false premises here. DRM is neither necessary nor sufficient for getting producers paid, this is nothing but a (commonly repeated) red herring or non sequitur.
"In other words, you need some kind of control over your ecosystem for pretty much the same reasons why you need police and judicial system in a society - to enforce laws in a, ideally, uniform way."
This is closer to the truth, at least in terms of the impetus behind DRM. Privileged players see it as a way to preserve their privilege, which they equate to 'preventing anarchy.'
But this is still absolute nonsense. It's my device if I buy it, and I will be the law on that device. No other law is wanted, needed, or welcome here.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 7:06 UTC (Tue) by rnp (subscriber, #50691) [Link]
Google is the new microsoft, but more intelligent, they use and promote open source instead of fighting it. Let's see how long it lasts.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 7:56 UTC (Tue) by gowen (guest, #23914) [Link] The "What happens when you disable Play Services" picture is instructive. One: it tells you that you can disable Play Services. That won't stop the moaning, of course (see above);Two: every pictured app that complains about the absence of Play Services (Youtube, Google+, Google Play, Google Search, Google Calendar and Google Hangouts + one I don't recognise) is a Google branded app. Which would suggest that Google Play Services is a server for a common Google programming framework, rather than something on which *all* apps depend. As the article says "Nearly every Google App on your device will break." - my emphasis. Really, its like removing MSVCRT.dll from a Windows box and complaining that Office won't start.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 10:21 UTC (Tue) by cesarb (subscriber, #6266) [Link]
> Really, its like removing MSVCRT.dll from a Windows box and complaining that Office won't start.
Not really. First, all mingw-compiled programs also use MSVCRT.dll. Second, everything which does not come with Windows, is compiled with MSVC, and is not a driver will use a different C runtime (depending on the MSVC version), which probably includes Office. Third, from what I know, all system programs which use a C runtime depend on MSVCRT.dll. So, removing MSVCRT.dll would break all mingw-compiled and system programs (it probably would not even boot), while not directly breaking Office.
Bad analogy.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 11:14 UTC (Tue) by Felix.Braun (subscriber, #3032) [Link]
This is a really good point. I suppose, if Google Play Services were just a common runtime for apps programmed by Google, then I'd be much less worried.
On the other hand, in that case it wouldn't do very much for Android defragmentation if other apps wouldn't depend on the presence of theses services too. So the original article at least implies, that the use of the Google Play Services is much more prevalent than what you state.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 12:22 UTC (Tue) by spaetz (subscriber, #32870) [Link]
Yes, but it is scary that it is all bundled up. You can not install the Google App store without getting all the rest in tow. I would love to have CyanogenMod without having to have the Google account wiping powers in place. Alas, not possible.
Google is defragging Android (ars technica) Posted Sep 3, 2013 18:39 UTC (Tue) by SEMW (guest, #52697) [Link]
Unless I'm misunderstanding you: The 'remotely wipe the device' power *is* optional. Settings -> Security -> Device administrators -> untick "Android Device Manager". (Not only is it optional, it doesn't even default to 'enabled', on phones old enough to not come with it anyway).
all this is eating up memory Posted Sep 3, 2013 13:58 UTC (Tue) by dambacher (subscriber, #1710) [Link]
I have one of these old android 2.3x phones and the biggest problem is that it gets slower and slower as the updated packages use up the internal ram.
And this makes you want to change phones more often.
all this is eating up memory Posted Sep 3, 2013 22:22 UTC (Tue) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]
You can not stop play services from updating but you can still stop apps from updating. I seldom update apps and always only one at a time. "If it ain't broken don't fix it".
How is Google is "defragging" Android? Posted Sep 5, 2013 0:14 UTC (Thu) by pflugstad (subscriber, #224) [Link]
Ok - unless I'm confused, I don't see how what Google is doing here is in any way "defragging Android". The "fragmentation" of Android has everything to do with the fact that there is a huge range of versions of Android out there in wide use (2.3, 3.X, 4.X), all with different API revisions:
http://developer.android.com/reference/packages.html
(change the API level in the upper left to see how the APIs have been added and changed over the versions).
So developers have to target the lowest common denominator set of APIs, in order to run on the majority of devices. This also ties Google to supporting those old APIs for a long time. Then you throw in the huge variety of hardware, which Google obviously can't do anything about.
So unless Google is delivering core API updates with their Play Services updates, I don't see how there's anything here to help out with "Android fragmentation". Google's Apps benefit, with the "shim" layer that is the Play Service framework, but I don't see how anyone else does.
How is Google is "defragging" Android? Posted Sep 5, 2013 1:55 UTC (Thu) by artem (subscriber, #51262) [Link]
Well, they promote Play Services API as the one to be used in all apps instead of 'bare' android APIs whenever possible, see for example http://android-developers.blogspot.ca/2012/09/google-play...
quote:
"The rollout of Google Play services to all Android 2.2+ devices worldwide is now complete, and all of those devices now have new tools for working with OAuth 2.0 tokens. This is an example of the kind of agility in rolling out new platform capabilities that Google Play services provides"
How is Google is "defragging" Android? Posted Sep 5, 2013 22:57 UTC (Thu) by pflugstad (subscriber, #224) [Link]
I think that's still just meant for accessing Google's APIs. So if you want to access the users Google Calendar data, then this is the way to go. But I still don't see them doing much about the base Android APIs.
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