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Blum: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All LostBlum: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All LostPosted Mar 23, 2013 0:24 UTC (Sat) by khc (subscriber, #45209)Parent article: Blum: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost
as a non-native speaker male, could someone explain how "fork a repo" is sexist?
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Blum: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost Posted Mar 23, 2013 0:45 UTC (Sat) by Tobu (subscriber, #24111) [Link] Quoting from the interested party:Hi, I'm the guy who made a comment about big dongles. First of all I'd like to say I'm sorry. I really did not mean to offend anyone and I really do regret the comment and how it made Adria feel. She had every right to report me to staff, and I defend her position. However, there is another side to this story. While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes were made about forking. My friends and I had decided forking someone's repo is a new form of flattery (the highest form being implementation) and we were excited about one of the presenters projects; a friend said "I would fork that guys repo" The sexual context was applied by Adria, and not us.
Blum: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost Posted Mar 23, 2013 1:02 UTC (Sat) by Tobu (subscriber, #24111) [Link] So that deals with innuendo and lack thereof. There's further to go from innuendo to sexism, and a ton of theories theorising the latter, but the application of gender studies to real-world blame assignment elevated to an internet art form sometimes loses perspective.
Blum: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost Posted Mar 23, 2013 10:13 UTC (Sat) by smurf (subscriber, #17840) [Link]
Thanks for the update.
All the more reason to talk *before* resorting to Twitter or other public blame-and-shame tactics.
Blum: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost Posted Mar 23, 2013 0:49 UTC (Sat) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167) [Link]
The word "fork" sounds enough like "fuck" that you can play on the similarity (do not try this sort of thing if you aren't fluent in the language). That only gets you part way to "sexist" of course, since on its own it's just smutty (or another poster above said "dirty") but it could be part of a longer discussion that was sexist.
Blum: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost Posted Mar 24, 2013 20:43 UTC (Sun) by brooksmoses (subscriber, #88422) [Link]
I think there's a fair bit of conflation of "sexist" and "sexual harassment" going on here.
Making sexual jokes in a professional environment around people (men _or_ women!) who are uncomfortable with them is sexual harassment. See, for example, the jokes and audience in question here.
In a culture where generally women are more offended by sexual jokes than men (such as American culture and many other cultures, for a large variety of reasons that I won't go into), a workplace environment full of sexual jokes will tend to lead to a workplace where many women feel uncomfortable and are thus pushed out -- and that result is sexist.
Blum: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost Posted Mar 24, 2013 20:55 UTC (Sun) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link]
If you think sec related jokes only happen in male dominated settings, you are sadly mistaken.
Spend some time talking with male nurses about that goes on in their environments and you will hear horror stories every bit as ugly.
then the stories of what goes on behind the scene in fashion modelling or cheerleading are legendary for the infighting, backbiting, harassment, etc.
It seems that any time you have a group that's skewed so heavily towards one gender this sort of behaviour happens
Blum: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost Posted Mar 24, 2013 23:47 UTC (Sun) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75) [Link] Spend some time talking with male nurses about that goes on in their environments and you will hear horror stories every bit as ugly. This is a good point. As a man who works in an environment where women are a substantial majority, I can confirm that women can and do say things that make men uncomfortable. The kinds of sexual discussions men and women tend to get involved with are different, but women's discussions can be just as off putting to men as the other way round. And, of course, if it's a group of women making sexual comments that make their male coworkers sufficiently uncomfortable, that's just as much sexual harassment as if it were the other way around.
Blum: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost Posted Mar 25, 2013 0:04 UTC (Mon) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]
> Spend some time talking with male nurses about that goes on in their environments and you will hear horror stories every bit as ugly.
While nurse stories would make IT persons blush like they never did before I don't think this is gender-related since doctors tell the same stories or worse. Gallows humour they say.
Blum: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost Posted Mar 26, 2013 0:24 UTC (Tue) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]
Quite. And, to be honest, I think cardiac nurses or neurosurgeons have more justification for gallows humour than do computer people (those working in non-safety-critical environments, anyway). When you've reached into someone's open chest on short notice in the middle of the working day you likely *need* to blow off steam afterwards. Dealing with idiotic IT support requests or random passing bugs is just not stressful to the same degree, at all. There isn't as much riding on it. (And I say this as someone who finds most computing jobs too stressful -- but I know this is a reflection on me, and not an indication that computing jobs are in some way super-stressful. They're not.)
Blum: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost Posted Mar 26, 2013 0:28 UTC (Tue) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link]
I wasn't talking about cardiac nurses or ER nurses or any subset that is under especially high stress.
I'm talking about your run-of-the-mill nursing staff (the equivalent of the run-of-the-mill IT staff, or auto mechanics, construction worker, etc)
Blum: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost Posted Mar 26, 2013 0:46 UTC (Tue) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]
> (the equivalent of the run-of-the-mill IT staff, or auto mechanics, construction worker, etc)
Even though run-of-the-mill nurses don't often deal with open chests they still have to deal with things quite heavier than "equivalent" jobs. It does not need to be covered in blood.
Blum: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost Posted Mar 26, 2013 4:02 UTC (Tue) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]
If I'm reading the research correctly there isn't any evidence that one source of stress is different than another, stress is stress and it doesn't matter if it is because of a life and death issue or a trivial one, it has the same effects and feels the same.
I'm sorry that you've internalized your difficulty with stress and don't think your feelings are legitimate because IT work isn't "important" enough, it's not a bad reflection on you to have stress. It reminds me of something I once read about ESPNs web operations, they remind themselves that he stakes are ultimately low, "We are not doctors, if we screw up no one dies, worst case is someone doesn't get their sports scores for a little while."
Blum: Adria Richards, PyCon, and How We All Lost Posted Mar 26, 2013 8:19 UTC (Tue) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]
> If I'm reading the research correctly...
If that's not literally begging for a:
[citation required]
... then I don't know what is!
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