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packagingpackagingPosted Mar 18, 2013 22:42 UTC (Mon) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389)In reply to: packaging by geuder Parent article: Duffy: Improving the Fedora boot experience
> I haven't worked that much using yum, but I have failed to find the concept of recommended in yum. Does it exist?
> zypper has recommended and apt even has recommended and suggested.
I think rpm5.org's RPM has Recommends/Suggests (which OpenSUSE uses), but Red Hat's RPM (4.x) does not. I don't know the status of it.
> zypper has the concept of vendor change, in yum I have at least never hit it.
"Vendor change"? Which repo provides which package or vendor in .desktop files?
> dpkg distinguishes configuration of the package. In the first installation this is probably similar to rpm %post%. But with dpkg you have to chance to reconfigure later, to my understanding with rpm you don't have that.
What do you mean by "reconfigure"? Reset to RPM-shipped defaults? The UIs that appear when installing server packages on Debian? IME, in RPM-land, other than defaults, it's usually up to $EDITOR.
> Debian supports multi-arch now. Does anything like this exist in rpm?
Fedora does biarch, but I'd fully support Debian-style multi-arch coming to Fedora. It's a much cleaner setup overall.
> Debian seems to have more additional tools than the others. apt-file, debfoster, and debtree come to my mind, I've used all of them occasionally (I'll be glad to hear what are the equivalent tools on the other side of the fence)
There is rpmdevtools which contains things like rpmdev-extract, rpmdev-diff, etc. As for the apt-* commands, I always forget which is used where. Most of those have analogues as subcommands of yum or flags to "rpm -q" (`rpm -qf /path/to/file` gives package(s) which installs the path).
> On the other side the automatic mirror selection in yum and believe also in zypper is superior what I'm used to in Ubuntu. There I end up manually editing the apt source list each time my country mirror suffers from some hickup.
Broken mirrors (404, hash mismatches, etc.) are handled gracefully by yum, but getting yum to stop using a slow mirror isn't the easiest. Ctrl-C is supposed to make yum stop its current download and restart it (preferably with a different mirror), but sometimes it gets all the way through and yum quits instead. Unfortunately, Ctrl-C to cancel things doesn't always work either (this is one of my gripes with Python in general).
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packaging Posted Mar 18, 2013 23:27 UTC (Mon) by geuder (subscriber, #62854) [Link]
> "Vendor change"? Which repo provides which package or vendor in .desktop files?
If the attribute displayed by
rpm -q --qf "%{VENDOR}\n" <package>
changes during upgrading an package changes zypper will warn you. It typically happens if you pull in dependencies built by yourself or from some independent repo. Not really sure how important that is, but it might be nice to know just in case something breaks.
> What do you mean by "reconfigure"?
It's not me, it's Debian that means...
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/man8/dpkg-rec...
I have used to to change the keyboard layout of installed systems (it can be a major annoyance if they sell you only computers with non-US keyboards in your country and all software assumes US layout). I'm sure there are other uses, but probably not everybody's everyday stuff.
> The UIs that appear when installing server packages on Debian?
I guess we could mean the same. If the dialogs cause trouble check
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/man7/debconf....
> There is rpmdevtools which contains things like rpmdev-extract, rpmdev-diff,
Without knowing exactly what they do after a quick glance to the man page, I don't think they are comparable to the ones I mentioned
- debfoster: helps to remove unnecessarily packages (stuff that nobody depends on anymore)
> Most of those have analogues as subcommands
I fully agree as far as basic set of rpm/zypper/yum vs. dpkg/apt commands is concerned. The more advanced, optional things as the 3 examples above I have never seen in the rpm world (I don't absolutetly claim they don't exist)
> but getting yum to stop using a slow mirror isn't the easiest
It gives up if less than 1 Byte/sec (I believe) is transferred for some time (which might be a bit too long) That is OK-ish if I do installations on the train and the network freezes. It might not be godd enough if you are on a fixed network and server is just really overloaded. Yes, I remember some buggy behaviour when using Ctrl-C.
packaging Posted Mar 19, 2013 0:02 UTC (Tue) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]
There are tools you might not be aware of
localectl (standard part of systemd)
packaging Posted Mar 19, 2013 12:39 UTC (Tue) by geuder (subscriber, #62854) [Link]
Thanks, these are useful pointers.
Currently I use on RHEL/CentOS, maybe Fedora some day again in connection with some distro hopping...
> localectl (standard part of systemd)
If it's systemd I guess it's Fedora only
> package-cleanup
Contained in package yum-utils
> rpmorphan
Doesn't seem to be in RHEL or EPEL.
packaging Posted Mar 19, 2013 14:32 UTC (Tue) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]
This discussion was about Fedora originally but you can easily take the srpm from Fedora and build it for RHEL if you would like to, esp for rpmorphan.
http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=...
There are other alternatives for RHEL that might be available in EPEL. I haven't checked since I am not running EL.
packaging Posted Mar 19, 2013 22:42 UTC (Tue) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129) [Link]
> > localectl (standard part of systemd)
> If it's systemd I guess it's Fedora only
packaging Posted Mar 19, 2013 13:52 UTC (Tue) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]
I think that Fedora doesn't use Vendor in its RPMs. I usually just get watchcommit permissions on packages I have persistent patches no one will accept. Sure, it only works for Fedora packages (not RPMFusion, etc.), but that's been sufficient for me. A plugin to yum which warns when the repo changes shouldn't be too hard.
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