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I'm sorry you feel that way.
This is *not* (only) about prettyness
Posted Mar 13, 2013 18:48 UTC (Wed) by tpo (subscriber, #25713)
What's exactly the point of that reply? Is its purpose maybe to "win" the argument?
In case your goal is to find important problems and solutions to them then I'm under the impression that Yenya's contribution here has the potential for some useful insights.
Posted Mar 13, 2013 20:01 UTC (Wed) by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639)
If this were a face-to-face conversation, and someone expressed disappointment with another person's decision making, the person receiving the complaint could easily be genuinely sorry that the decision made the other person unhappy and trying to express that. If you could see Mo's facial expression, body language and could hear the tone of her voice you could know whether or not this was meant as a genuine attempt to show either sympathy and/or empathy.
Text as a medium is very difficult when it comes to handling emotive language, or the things you humans call "feelings". It's very difficult to know for sure if the person making an emotive statement is doing so in a genuine fashion or is being patronizing or dismissive. Its just as easy to read both sides of the conversation as trollish regardless of either person's intent.
Unfortunately we tend to project our out state of mind when we read these sort of conversations. If we are angry or upset, we will read responses as if they were intended to be angry or upset. We don't of correlating tone and body language context to help us sort it out.
Be wary, and give everyone the benefit of the doubt with regard to emotional intent.
Posted Mar 14, 2013 8:47 UTC (Thu) by Company (guest, #57006)
The only reason why you (and I) didn't read it as a passive-aggressive trolling comment was because we know the person who wrote the comment. Because it said "duffy" and not "slashdot".
Posted Mar 14, 2013 15:22 UTC (Thu) by sebas (subscriber, #51660)
I don't want to be in this place, it helps nobody.
I do want to be in a place where you can express being personally sorry when disagreeing over a technical issue without being mistaken for a sarcastic disk who just wants to pour some extra salt into the wound.
Being friendly is not a bad thing at all, in fact it's often missing in the discourse in Free software communities, and probably makes quite some people stay away, or leave, because they just don't possess the time and energy to put up with discouragement.
In KDE (and a few other communities I know of), this has even been codified in a code of conduct, read for example http://www.kde.org/code-of-conduct/ or, maybe more relevant here, Fedora's: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct (although the latter is not very clear on this assume-positive directive).
Posted Mar 17, 2013 0:54 UTC (Sun) by duffy (subscriber, #31787)
No, I'm sorry that the project isn't going the direction you would have liked. It's disappointing and frustrating when you follow a project for a while and then it veers away from what you liked about it. That doesn't mean the project is doing anything wrong, just that for you personally it's not working out anymore. I'm sorry.
Posted Mar 17, 2013 11:34 UTC (Sun) by tpo (subscriber, #25713)
Your reply answers the second question ("Is its purpose maybe to 'win' the argument?"), not however as far as I understand the first one.
I am assuming that designing an OS is foremost /not/ a question of personal likes or playing the psychosocial instruments of the community to advance one's agenda, ego or ideas.
Certainly, us all being human (apart from the dogs collaborating incognito on various projects), tastes and social mechanisms also need to be considered ("I'm sorry"), but they should be secondary and only means to the end of creating a system that is technically and objectively as good as possible .
That's my assumption of what Gnome and most fundamental and large open source projects are about.
So under the stated assumption, answering "No, I'm sorry that the project isn't going the direction you would have liked" to a person that is trying to point out in detail what's wrong from a technical and usecase standpoint about the direction that some software solution is taking does not make any sense to me.
It's like saying "No, I'm sorry that the project isn't going the direction you would have liked" to a colorblind person that is trying to explain, why choosing a red on green font is not a good choice for his use case.
Is my limited understanding preventing me to comprehend it all?
 Also, as shown by many benevolent dictators "taste" can be an effective mechanism of choice in the face of "unresolvable complexity".
 That doesn't imply that the primarily goals would unconditionally justify all means or universally trump the secondary goals.
Posted Mar 17, 2013 17:33 UTC (Sun) by jwakely (subscriber, #60262)
Oh come off it!
Look at the post again: http://lwn.net/Articles/542734/
It was in response to "I am not very happy to see Fedora going this way."
"I'm sorry the project isn't going the way you like" is a perfectly valid response to "The project isn't going the way I like". What other response do you expect? "Oh, OK, we'll change the project's direction to please one commenter on LWN?" Maybe the direction *should* change, but presumably it's been decided by Fedora contributors on Fedora lists for various good and bad reasons, changing it based on one commenter on a non-Fedora site, no matter how well reasoned the points, would be a strange way to run the project.
Posted Mar 17, 2013 20:10 UTC (Sun) by HelloWorld (subscriber, #56129)
Posted Mar 17, 2013 21:16 UTC (Sun) by jwakely (subscriber, #60262)
Posted Mar 18, 2013 10:04 UTC (Mon) by nix (subscriber, #2304)
"Oh, OK, we'll change the project's direction to please one commenter on LWN?"
But only if the commenter is me. Have a sense of proportion here!
Posted Mar 18, 2013 17:42 UTC (Mon) by jwakely (subscriber, #60262)
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