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Gräßlin: Client Side Window Decorations and WaylandGräßlin: Client Side Window Decorations and WaylandPosted Feb 13, 2013 23:54 UTC (Wed) by khim (subscriber, #9252)In reply to: Gräßlin: Client Side Window Decorations and Wayland by dlang Parent article: Gräßlin: Client Side Window Decorations and Wayland
With CSD being the norm, the expectation is that different toolkits will choose to do different things and users will have to figure out how to close each application's window differently, depending on what toolkit was used And this is such a big problem because 99% of time people are spending doing nothing but moving windows around and closing these pesky windows. Seriously: applications handle in-window UI themselves and do it in somewhat inconsistent way - and this is not a problem apparently (there are still some users left, right?). Why is it such a big problem with windows decorations?
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Gräßlin: Client Side Window Decorations and Wayland Posted Feb 14, 2013 1:37 UTC (Thu) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link]
> And this is such a big problem because 99% of time people are spending doing nothing but moving windows around and closing these pesky windows.
no, this is such a big problem because the impact of hitting 'close immediately with no second chance' on a window when you mean to hit 'maximize' is so drastic.
High impact problems that happen less frequently are still major problems.
Gräßlin: Client Side Window Decorations and Wayland Posted Feb 14, 2013 8:09 UTC (Thu) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] this is such a big problem because the impact of hitting 'close immediately with no second chance' on a window when you mean to hit 'maximize' is so drastic. And the same problem always existed which keyboard - yet somehow people are not rioting and are not writing petitions to make Ctrl-Q illegal.
Gräßlin: Client Side Window Decorations and Wayland Posted Feb 14, 2013 10:45 UTC (Thu) by hholzgra (subscriber, #11737) [Link]
Exactly one of the reasons why i stopped using my Mac ... Cmd-Q (when using the right side Cmd key) is just too similar to AltGr-Q on a German PC keyboard ... quite a few long email replies have vanished as right before sending i figured out "i should put somebody@example.org on Cc:" and hit the wrong @ combination, closing the reply window without any confirmation dialog that way ...
Gräßlin: Client Side Window Decorations and Wayland Posted Feb 14, 2013 13:53 UTC (Thu) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]
I remapped all functional keys on my Mac :) To confuse the potential adversary and to make it a little bit easier to actually press commonly used combinations.
Gräßlin: Client Side Window Decorations and Wayland Posted Feb 14, 2013 22:56 UTC (Thu) by apoelstra (subscriber, #75205) [Link]
> And the same problem always existed which keyboard - yet somehow people are not rioting and are not writing petitions to make Ctrl-Q illegal.
On dvorak, Win+J (switch to lower window in wmii) and Ctrl+Q are immediately beside each other, and feel identical on my keyboard. So I routinely close programs that I was trying to switch away from.
The reason that I'm not rioting or writing petitions is that it's my own fault, not that it's not a problem.
Gräßlin: Client Side Window Decorations and Wayland Posted Feb 14, 2013 1:44 UTC (Thu) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link]
ummm... enforce strict rules which would be *desktop environment very specific*, doesn't matter if CSD or SSD... and no discussion about it, and bickering about toolkits or semantics needed.period
Don't like the default ? ... there are some themes(could be plenty), else do your own or ... off.
See !?... i think this part is so easy...
Gräßlin: Client Side Window Decorations and Wayland Posted Feb 14, 2013 8:11 UTC (Thu) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] Any plan which includes word "eforce" is doomed to fail in FOSS word. Simply because there are noone who can enforce anything as was already said.
Gräßlin: Client Side Window Decorations and Wayland Posted Feb 15, 2013 14:36 UTC (Fri) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link]
Depends on what you mean by "eforce"...
It could be that is coded in a certain way that only permits certain possibilities, namely windows decorations being rendered in a certain way buy certain rules.
Who controls the "renderer" controls the look, unless with CSD you mean allow any kind of renderer... and then complain why certain apps apply their own and its a "looking" mess -> crazy.
so its not like "gun point" and you have to abide, but simply coded to use what is included and no other option.
Don't like it ?... you can always fork KDE or Gnome (etc)... or pertinent parts and do it your way, only don't expect others to maintain it.
what is wrong or difficult with that ?
Gräßlin: Client Side Window Decorations and Wayland Posted Feb 15, 2013 16:01 UTC (Fri) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] what is wrong or difficult with that ? Well… KDE or Gnome (etc) That. There are always other options. And bikeshedding law means that the least important and complicated pieces will always differ.
Gräßlin: Client Side Window Decorations and Wayland Posted Feb 15, 2013 16:18 UTC (Fri) by mmarq (guest, #2332) [Link]
There is nothing wrong... you are talking in circles (semantics)
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