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LWN.net Weekly Edition for May 16, 2013
A look at the PyPy 2.0 release
PostgreSQL 9.3 beta: Federated databases and more
LWN.net Weekly Edition for May 9, 2013
(Nearly) full tickless operation in 3.10
Gräßlin: Client Side Window Decorations and Wayland
Posted Feb 14, 2013 4:00 UTC (Thu) by Serge (guest, #84957)
I guess it's not possible. You may get Wayland in KDE, i.e. KWin from KDE running in X.Org and supporting native Wayland applications. But it's really hard to run KDE on Wayland without X.Org.
Wayland protocol requires compositor to be a bloat monster. To have Wayland-KDE without X.Org you need KWin + Plasma + KScreensaver integrated into a single compositing application.
Are you sure you want that? ;)
Posted Feb 14, 2013 9:34 UTC (Thu) by mgraesslin (subscriber, #78959)
Sure more things will go into KWin, but that's not a particular new thing. It happened over the last few years more and more that we moved things into the compositor.
Posted Feb 14, 2013 10:56 UTC (Thu) by Serge (guest, #84957)
> KScreenSaver is already dead in 4.10 (kept alive as a zombie for those who really need fancy animations from the 90).
Different people, different tastes. On a private notebook screensavers may be useless. But I've often seen password-protected screensavers in offices.
BTW, have you seen rss-glx or Electric Sheep?
> Plasma and KWin won't be merged and even in a Wayland world they don't need to be merged.
In a Wayland world how can you implement taskbar, systray etc. without either merging plasma into compositor or extending Wayland protocol with the missing parts of X11?
Posted Feb 14, 2013 12:06 UTC (Thu) by hummassa (subscriber, #307)
Posted Feb 14, 2013 13:07 UTC (Thu) by mgraesslin (subscriber, #78959)
>Different people, different tastes. On a private notebook screensavers may be useless. But I've often seen password-protected screensavers in offices.
It's still possible to lock the screen, just KScreenSaver is not used for that any more.
>> Plasma and KWin won't be merged and even in a Wayland world they don't need to be merged.
>In a Wayland world how can you implement taskbar, systray etc. without either merging plasma into compositor or extending Wayland protocol with the missing parts of X11?
Systray is already D-Bus only (modulo legacy X11embedd and we won't have a wembedd) and for tasks I don't see a problem with having a private protocol between plasma and KWin if that doesn't get standardized. It's not like KWin and Plasma talk quite a lot already with custom protocols in the X11 world.
Posted Feb 14, 2013 15:51 UTC (Thu) by Kit (guest, #55925)
Personally, I have very little trust in the ability of X11 environments to securely lock a session. I remember for many years how windows would pop /over/ the screen saver. Or the screen saver crashing, defeating the security it "provided". Or the screen saver taking 30+ seconds to pop up after resume (why is it so slow to start???). Not to mention, under many circumstances the screen saver will never start (one of the Wayland videos from Linux.conf.au actually mentioned this).
Work has been done to improve the situation (I believe an extension was developed to try to solve the first one), but I still find the whole screensaver-as-locking-mechanism to be a poor fit. I'd rather see Linux adopt something akin to what OSX and Windows have been doing for somewhere around a decade, where the lock screen is its own secure context, instead of just a window painted above all the others. I believe the Wayland developers have even spoken about doing something along these lines in the past.
Posted Feb 14, 2013 16:55 UTC (Thu) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
Posted Feb 15, 2013 10:26 UTC (Fri) by paulj (subscriber, #341)
I guess the GNOME3 screen saver isn't synchronised with the suspend process, such that it ensures the screen locking code has run before suspend occurs.
I don't remember either way whether or not this occurred before GNOME3. Maybe it's a long-standing bug, maybe not. If a long-standing Linux suspend / screensaver bug, then I suspect it's more noticeable with GNOME3 because of some slowness somewhere or races that become more apparent with the heavier-weight nature of GNOME shell (RAM wise particularly) - resume takes a lot longer with GNOME shell.
On my multi-monitor, work desktop, I've noticed with GNOME3/Cinnamon the screensaver can sometimes kick in but still leave 1 desktop monitor setup visible - though you can't interact with it. You have to type the password blind to get in. Fun...
Posted Feb 15, 2013 10:28 UTC (Fri) by khim (subscriber, #9252)
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