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25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

Posted Feb 5, 2013 15:23 UTC (Tue) by niner (subscriber, #26151)
In reply to: 25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women by xan
Parent article: 25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

"Women have been, as a group, discriminated against for *thousands of years*, always being relegated to tasks that were considered second rate and physically, culturally and legally prevented from accessing the sphere of public life, higher education and the vast majority of jobs."

I'm mostly playing the devil's advocate here, but I think, I can illustrate the core of the problem:

I am male. I never in my life discriminated against any woman let alone for thousands of years. I did do nothing wrong.

Yet I'm being discriminated against at numerous occasions. If I apply for a job and there's female competition with about the same qualification as me, she will get it. If I ponder getting involved with development of GNOME but finances just won't allow spending the time, I won't get involved with GNOME because as a male I do not get the same chances as women do.

To sum it up: I'm innocent, yet I'm punished.

I think this is the core reason why this discussion will flame up every time a program like the one in the article is mentioned. And I think it would be wise to address this directly. Otherwise these well intentioned and important outreach programs will always leave a certain inflammatory after taste.


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25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

Posted Feb 5, 2013 16:18 UTC (Tue) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link]

"I never in my life discriminated against any woman let alone for thousands of years."

You've never consciously discriminated against any woman. The massively overwhelming probability is that you've done so unconsciously. That's not something you should be punished for, but it is something that won't be fixed unless compensating biases are put in place.

25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

Posted Feb 5, 2013 16:33 UTC (Tue) by apoelstra (subscriber, #75205) [Link]

> I'm mostly playing the devil's advocate here, but I think, I can illustrate the core of the problem:

> I am male. I never in my life discriminated against any woman let alone for thousands of years. I did do nothing wrong.

> Yet I'm being discriminated against at numerous occasions...

This is a serious problem with reparation schemes or any situation in which a minority group is given preference -at the expense of- other groups. But that's not what GNOME thing is. If it wasn't a targeted program for women in open source, it's not like there'd be some equivalent non-targeted thing. The point is not just to find developers, but to improve network effects, change the atmosphere and tone of the open-source, and otherwise make the open-source world a more appealing place for women.

And the endgame of -that- is to increase the net developer power, not change its composition. There is no excess of open source developers. Nobody will be displaced by un-alienating alienated groups.

25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

Posted Feb 5, 2013 17:19 UTC (Tue) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]

> I am male. I never in my life discriminated against any woman let alone for thousands of years. I did do nothing wrong.

But of course you've taken advantage of your privileged position, I'm certain I have, probably without even being aware of it, and have had discrimination fall in your favor, which is much more common than for a male to be discriminated against. As a member of a privileged class you get to live life on easy mode compared to someone else with the same basic qualities but who looks different. There really aren't many moustache-twirling villans out there who actively try and put people down, and no one thinks that of you, the reality is much more insidious.

25 Women in 10 Free Software Organizations for GNOME's Outreach Program for Women

Posted Feb 5, 2013 18:14 UTC (Tue) by jubal (subscriber, #67202) [Link]

Yet I'm being discriminated against at numerous occasions. If I apply for a job and there's female competition with about the same qualification as me, she will get it. If I ponder getting involved with development of GNOME but finances just won't allow spending the time, I won't get involved with GNOME because as a male I do not get the same chances as women do.
I call bullshit.

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