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Seigo: Plasma.next()?Seigo: Plasma.next()?Posted Jan 29, 2013 16:43 UTC (Tue) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630)In reply to: Seigo: Plasma.next()? by sebas Parent article: Seigo: Plasma.next()?
you will find that putting a "semantic" view central fits in very well (in fact much closer than many file system usages) with how you would naturally organise your "stuff". No. I naturally organize my "stuff" hierarchically and I hate tag-based ways of organization. I also hate "semantic" views because what the view author considers to be important semantics might not be what I do. By all means, offer the choice of tags and semantic organization to those who want it. But don't hide the file system or demote it to second-class status. In my experience, tags are great for searching, but not for organizing. They are two completely different use-cases.
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Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Jan 29, 2013 17:05 UTC (Tue) by Tara_Li (subscriber, #26706) [Link]
Yeah, let's look at this "semantic" stuff and how it can even apply to something as simple as a file list...
Ok, we've got a bunch of files from some random image site.
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Now, your nice "semantic" thing has slipped in here - since leading zeros are ignored in computing the value of a number - let's just ignore them when we're sorting the files! According to Nautilus - those filenames are in order! (And no, setting collating order, language or anything else I can find fixes it...)
Except, well, leading zeros are dropped when they're *NUMBERS* - why should they be ignored for sorting file *NAMES*?
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Jan 29, 2013 18:37 UTC (Tue) by mgedmin (subscriber, #34497) [Link]
I'm pretty happy that Nautilus lists these files in this order:
slide1.png
Are you saying this sorting order doesn't make sense to you, and you'd prefer a strict lexicographical order, i.e.
slide1.png
?
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Jan 29, 2013 18:49 UTC (Tue) by Tara_Li (subscriber, #26706) [Link]
Yes - yes I am.
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Jan 30, 2013 16:56 UTC (Wed) by Wol (guest, #4433) [Link]
Wyhat happens if I'm trying to number months? This EXACT problem bit me ...
1041_JAN
That's the order I *want*. Except the order I *get* thinks that October comes before January ...
Just because the computer thinks that A is not a number, doesn't mean I'm not counting in hex...
Cheers,
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Jan 31, 2013 4:01 UTC (Thu) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]
This sounds like some metadata that could go into a .directory file beside the files. Now if only `ls` would read those as well…
I certainly don't want a file browser sitting there for 5 minutes trying to figure out that I format filenames by "%Y%b%0d, %a, %H%M%S - description" for some directory and sort accordingly if I can just give it that information.
File sort order Posted Jan 29, 2013 21:19 UTC (Tue) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] (Re sorting slide19.png before slide2.png) It should give you the option. I tend to live in the terminal and not use file browsers, but I think a canonical sorting order used by all File Open dialogs, file browsers, and the like should be observed. It should be a desktop setting that all clients obey.
File sort order Posted Jan 30, 2013 0:48 UTC (Wed) by Company (guest, #57006) [Link]
The KDE solution to all of life's problems: Give users an option!
File sort order Posted Jan 30, 2013 3:14 UTC (Wed) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] The KDE solution to all of life's problems: Give users an option! And a very good solution it is, too. Much better than the GNOME solution which is "Don't give users any options."
File sort order Posted Jan 30, 2013 3:44 UTC (Wed) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]
I would say neither is entirely true and neither is always give a good thing to do. Sometimes pushing the choice to end users is absolutely the wrong thing and I think KDE does that way too often and GNOME has gone the other direction too much as well although compared to prior versions within the major release, there has been some course corrections. Personally, I would love to see more focus on sharing interfaces and low level implementations such as standardizing on default ordering of apps in a cross desktop way
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/mime-actio...
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Jan 30, 2013 7:14 UTC (Wed) by callegar (guest, #16148) [Link]
But should filenames be exposed at all in this approach? Aren't them just another filesystem detail? The names automatically given to files by cameras, which are usually totally meaningless for a human show that it can be so. Isn't the name just another tag? Shouldn't files like those in the previous example be identified by queries like "type is slide and progressive is 02" rather than by "slide02.xyz"? When one creates a new file or document, at the time of saving shouldn't the user be asked just for tags and attributes instead of a filename? And is the filesystem the best way to store things in this approach? Wouldn't it be better to reserve the filesystem for the OS files (that are historically organized in this way) and use a database for all the user data?
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Jan 29, 2013 23:37 UTC (Tue) by renox (subscriber, #23785) [Link]
1) I don't see the link with semantic here
2) One easy way to solve your issue is to allow the user to sort the files by 'alphanumerical' or 'alphabetical' order.
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Jan 30, 2013 0:52 UTC (Wed) by Tara_Li (subscriber, #26706) [Link]
The order is semantic - ordered by parsed and extracted meaning, rather than simply by what it *is*.
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Jan 30, 2013 10:33 UTC (Wed) by renox (subscriber, #23785) [Link]
> The order is semantic - ordered by parsed and extracted meaning, rather than simply by what it *is*.
Wrong: what you have is a string and there is no only one way to parse it, so it's up to the user to select the correct way, usually the alphanumerical is the correct default but not always.
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