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Seigo: Plasma.next()?Seigo: Plasma.next()?Posted Jan 29, 2013 16:26 UTC (Tue) by ibukanov (subscriber, #3942)In reply to: Seigo: Plasma.next()? by sebas Parent article: Seigo: Plasma.next()?
> you will find that putting a "semantic" view central fits in very well (in fact much closer than many file system usages) with how you would naturally organise your "stuff".
Consider a simple task: work with hundreds photos from a camera from the last trip. To manage the task a good starting point is to split photos into groups/folders with each group fitting on a screen. Doing that based on approximate timing with a file manager is very quickly even if one needs to move files between groups to get better semantic match between groups and the content. Then as each group fits on the screen, it is very easy to navigate between them and remove clearly bad photos.
The nice thing of such grouping is that it *quickly* creates a natural hierarchy, like whole-project-name/group-name/photo that allows later to find pictures by a trivial navigation in a file manager/open file dialogs. Again, the fact that group fits on the screen is rather important to avoid any scrolling while allowing image recognition in the brain to pickup the photo. So just by effortless initial setup I can locate an image among thousands using few clicks.
I see how the touch interface can help with such workflow. But can Plasma do it faster?
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Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Jan 30, 2013 10:23 UTC (Wed) by aseigo (guest, #18394) [Link]
> a good starting point is to split photos into groups/folders with each
> group fitting on a screen
and in Plasma Active you do that with tags.
which is even faster because you don't need to navigate back and forth, create a folder that shows along side files and then drag files things to it in the same view ... you just drag to an existing tag (or on to "new tag").
you can tag things with multiple tags. many of the photos probably have metadata put their by the camera. there are also tags the system can infer such as "mark all these photos as related to this activity".
when viewing, you select a relevant tag set (which can be 1 or more) and optionally a time slice.
so you get all the organizational power of folders without the drudgery of the folder UI or the limitations of single entry hierarchies.
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Jan 30, 2013 11:03 UTC (Wed) by bluebugs (subscriber, #71022) [Link]
What if you are using a nice photo camera linked to a GPS or if you have GPS track with time associated with your travel. Then you could imagine that the GPS information will get tagged automatically on the image. This way you will automatically group them by location. This would give a more accurate separation than timestamp, would be more accurate to what people do anyway at the end and fit the semantic approach quite well.
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Jan 30, 2013 12:27 UTC (Wed) by micka (subscriber, #38720) [Link]
The GPS unit is _of course_ disabled on my camera and my phone. I sometimes happy to share my photos, and the timestamp is (more than) enough information to leak.
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Jan 30, 2013 12:31 UTC (Wed) by micka (subscriber, #38720) [Link]
Can't edit, I forgot to add that it's usually better for the device battery duration.
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Jan 30, 2013 13:07 UTC (Wed) by bluebugs (subscriber, #71022) [Link]
This is a different problem. I wish that web browser where more responsible and propose to remove this meta data when uploading file. Hopefully a semantic aware environment would care about that. It is clearly a shame to restrict ourself localy just because of crappy tool.
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Jan 30, 2013 13:55 UTC (Wed) by micka (subscriber, #38720) [Link]
Well, I don't share my photos using websites either :)
And when I put them on a web reachable location, I don't do it with my browser (but they are access restricted anyway).
But when I share photos with others, I can't control what they will do with them, so I can't be sure they won't be uploaded somewhere.
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Jan 30, 2013 18:16 UTC (Wed) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]
But tools to automatically strip sensitive metadata such as GPS tags make sense in any case because that is something anyone will rarely _want_ to share.
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Jan 30, 2013 11:28 UTC (Wed) by jospoortvliet (subscriber, #33164) [Link]
you would do the exact same thing on plasma active but the folders are called 'tags' and files are not constrained to being in a single 'folder'.
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Jan 30, 2013 12:06 UTC (Wed) by andresfreund (subscriber, #69562) [Link]
While tags are a nice, they don't really map nicely to everything. Exactly because there is no such constraint. Consider e.g. the storage location. On most tag based systems its incredibly ugly to copy data on internal storage to an SD card or the reverse.
To the point where google uses that as justification for not putting in SD card slots in their nexus phones...
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Feb 2, 2013 10:08 UTC (Sat) by jospoortvliet (subscriber, #33164) [Link]
As folders, no matter how you slice and dice it, are nothing else than a tag on a file, it's kind'a weird to claim that there is anything tags can't do but folders can.
There is no reason not to have (automatically assigned) tags which denote on which file system a file is, or which even represent a hierarchical relationship ("folders"). The fact that this is not done or not done properly doens't mean it can't be done.
Similar situation: Microsoft, Google and GNOME are trying to develop one UI which works on multpiple devices but are failing. Does that mean it is impossible and there is no way to share code/UI concepts between touch- desktop- mobile- and 10-feet devices? No, just look at KDE Plasma - which is doing exactly that (but a lot smarter, yes).
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Feb 2, 2013 13:00 UTC (Sat) by andresfreund (subscriber, #69562) [Link]
> As folders, no matter how you slice and dice it, are nothing else than a tag on a file, it's kind'a weird to claim that there is anything tags can't do but folders can.
> There is no reason not to have (automatically assigned) tags which denote on which file system a file is, or which even represent a hierarchical relationship ("folders"). The fact that this is not done or not done properly doens't mean it can't be done.
To quote yourself somewhere nearby:
Sorry, that was just too easy bait to let go.
And no, folders are different from a tags because files are only stored in one location (and no, don't argue with hardlinks, that doesn't change anything). You could possibly do it by inventing some sort of tag category and only allowing one tag of that category (e.g. location:device/path) but designing a good ui ontop of that isn't all that easy.
I have yet to see any tag based system that deals with different storage devices graciously without resorting to a folder based system for that part.
Seigo: Plasma.next()? Posted Feb 11, 2013 10:02 UTC (Mon) by jospoortvliet (subscriber, #33164) [Link] Sorry, that was just too easy bait to let go. Yeah, but it's not the same thing. This can do it ;-) And yes, folders are the same thing, they're just a property on the file system. Which stores stuff in inodes organized in RB trees or stuff like that - the physical location has no relation to the directory hierarchy. True that a file can have multiple tags but as I said, the fact that you haven't seen any system working with it doesn't mean it isn't possible. I haven't had a good look at how the PA guys do it but I do look forward to seeing it ;-)
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