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I strongly disapprove of Mr Poettering's ongoing attempts to morph the supremely flexible Linux world into some Microsoft-ish monolithic Lennux thing.
Systemd 197 released
Posted Jan 9, 2013 2:39 UTC (Wed) by dirtyepic (subscriber, #30178)
Posted Jan 9, 2013 12:38 UTC (Wed) by Zack (guest, #37335)
Assuming he's the same that is involved with Debian GNU/kFreeBSD, there might be a correction of Lennart's dismissal of all that's not to his liking, and systemd might, after all, become a universal init for GNU systems.
(Although, after a cursory search of the systemd-devel list I can't find any patches)
Posted Jan 9, 2013 14:19 UTC (Wed) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129)
The best thing for the kFreeBSD people to do would be to create their own non-portable init replacement and use all the FreeBSD goodies such as kqueue, jails, capsicum, devd and whatnot. This project should share the portable subset of systemd's interfaces and add its own extensions for kFreeBSD specific functionality. I can't think of another way to bring systemd's advantages to kFreeBSD while retaining an easily understandable and hackable code base. Yes, there'd be some duplication of functionality, but you can't have everything.
Besides, the main obstacle for wide-spread systemd adoption isn't lack of portability but Ubuntu. They are the only distro with a relevant user base that doesn't offer systemd at least as an option.
Posted Jan 9, 2013 16:23 UTC (Wed) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75)
I think it's more fair to say that a FreeBSD port won't happen soon. Once systemd has settled down, there's a better chance that necessary changes to enable it on systems other than Linux will happen. FreeBSD may adopt some Linux-like features that will make porting systemd practical (especially once they've proven their worth in Linux) and Lenaert Poettering will probably move on to a new project, so systemd may have a maintainer who's more willing to tolerate some ifdefs to bring in other Unix-like systems. Not going to happen soon, but never is a very long time.
Posted Jan 10, 2013 10:34 UTC (Thu) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129)
Of course, things would be different if FreeBSD were to adopt the essential Linux APIs that systemd needs. But I don't think they will as most of the functionality is already there, just in different form. Linux has devtmpfs/udev, FreeBSD has devfs/devd. Linux has epoll/inotify/fanotify, FreeBSD has kqueue/kevent.
Nevertheless, it *might* happen, just like we *might* one day genetically engineer pigs to grow wings and fly. But it's coffee cup reading more than anything else.
Posted Jan 9, 2013 15:49 UTC (Wed) by mbiebl (subscriber, #41876)
Hope that clarifies.
Posted Jan 9, 2013 5:10 UTC (Wed) by nteon (subscriber, #53899)
Posted Jan 9, 2013 6:00 UTC (Wed) by mgb (guest, #3226)
Linux and the Gnu tools combine to create an extremely flexible platform that is optimal for almost all use cases.
Poettering seems determined to create a monolithic monstrosity more akin to Microsoft than Gnu and Linux.
Not only is this technically abhorrent in and of itself, but the process whereby he takes control of a key feature and then leverages it to force other unnecessary changes is morally abhorrent, and incidentally also in the Microsoft vein.
Posted Jan 9, 2013 6:35 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
> Linux and the Gnu tools combine to create an extremely flexible platform that is optimal for almost all use cases.
Android and uClibc/Busybox systems are very monolithic non-GNU-ish systems. And they FAR outnumber 'traditional' desktop/server Linux (and other Unixes, for that matter).
Posted Jan 9, 2013 11:01 UTC (Wed) by mgb (guest, #3226)
Posted Jan 9, 2013 12:43 UTC (Wed) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129)
Posted Jan 9, 2013 6:51 UTC (Wed) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129)
And besides, I don't even care whether it's monolithic or unix-ish or whatever other labels you'll come up with. What I care about is that it is faster, more reliable and more powerful than any of its alternatives. And unlike you, Poettering posted long and detailed rationale for the systemd design in his blog, while you completely fail to give any technical arguments against it. That makes it a lot easier to agree with him than with you.
Posted Jan 9, 2013 8:35 UTC (Wed) by tnoo (subscriber, #20427)
For me, systemctl is much nicer to use than random init scripts, and journalctl much more convenient than the traditional Unix chaos of randomly formatted logfiles.
So I highly welcome Poetterings work on this, which is much more useful than your comment that Linux is morphed by him into Windows (whatever that means).
Posted Jan 9, 2013 9:41 UTC (Wed) by tao (subscriber, #17563)
Posted Jan 9, 2013 9:49 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
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