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Langasek: Upstart in DebianLangasek: Upstart in DebianPosted Nov 27, 2012 17:23 UTC (Tue) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129)In reply to: Langasek: Upstart in Debian by JEFFREY Parent article: Langasek: Upstart in Debian
> The only documentation the sysadmin test subjects shall have are the man pages and /usr/share/docs.
What's the point of this artificial restriction?
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Langasek: Upstart in Debian Posted Nov 27, 2012 17:58 UTC (Tue) by cortana (subscriber, #24596) [Link]
Is it even much of a restriction? systemd's documentation is excellent.
I was at this point going to make a snide comment about sysvinit's documentation, but it's actually also gotten a lot better since I last read it (currently using 2.88 here).
Langasek: Upstart in Debian Posted Nov 27, 2012 18:23 UTC (Tue) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129) [Link]
> Is it even much of a restriction?
No, I was just wondering why. One can almost always access the web in practice.
Langasek: Upstart in Debian Posted Nov 27, 2012 22:10 UTC (Tue) by JEFFREY (subscriber, #79095) [Link]
There are several good reasons for this restriction.
Let's assume the only computer at-hand is the one with an init problem and no cell-phones are allowed on-site. If one of the services that will not start is "Network", then suddenly not having Internet access is a reality and the provided documentation becomes suddenly more important.
Also, this lends itself to be a good test of the documentation. When I evaluate software, documentation is also considered. I prefer a package with a few bugs and excellent documentation (excellent documentation might even include a list of known-issues or bugs) over a package with no known flaws but horrible documentation. As a sysadmin, I place great value on being able to trust the documentation, and, based on the documentation, to be able to predict how the software will run under various conditions.
Langasek: Upstart in Debian Posted Nov 28, 2012 5:18 UTC (Wed) by sorpigal (subscriber, #36106) [Link]
Even if the network service starts it doesn't mean the internet is routable. I've had to work with plenty of systems which were not connected and never will be.
Langasek: Upstart in Debian Posted Nov 28, 2012 6:01 UTC (Wed) by set (guest, #4788) [Link]
The init system is simply an automated system for doing all the things a capable sysadmin should be able to do manually. i.e. if the internet is available and you cannot connect to it, or a filesystem needs mounting and you cannot do that outside the aegis of the init system, there are worse problems at hand.
Personally, I recently upgraded a very outdated Arch system, and in the process changed over to systemd. The least of my problems was learning my way around systemd. It didnt seem that alien, compared to the sort of wrappers I am used to on Gentoo. I even tried out the journal logging. For my use case, it seems awkward and slow, but you can just use your old syslog daemon if you want to ignore that. I can see where it could be great for people who need to do automated forensics on logs via scripting and the like, though.
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