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LWN.net Weekly Edition for May 16, 2013
A look at the PyPy 2.0 release
PostgreSQL 9.3 beta: Federated databases and more
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(Nearly) full tickless operation in 3.10
Posted Nov 22, 2012 2:02 UTC (Thu) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239)
Posted Nov 22, 2012 2:12 UTC (Thu) by bojan (subscriber, #14302)
Even in your case, where you do have a running application, overview is still a regression, because there are two changes of view and you cannot even see where your application is without entering the overview. (I never claimed things could not be improved in the "classic" paradigm - just that activities overview isn't it).
Please read Windows 8 review by the real usability expert I pointed to a few comments above. It is rather instructive when it comes to Gnome 3. I wasn't even aware of how hard Gnome developers have been looking at Metro before I saw Windows 8 on YouTube.
Posted Nov 22, 2012 2:51 UTC (Thu) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239)
Sure, it's mildly more involved to move an application to a different workspace. But that's made up for by not *having* to know where my application is - I click, I get taken there. I spend much more time interacting with running applications than I do starting new ones.
(I'm pretty convinced you've got your timeline wrong regarding Windows 8 and Gnome 3)
Posted Nov 22, 2012 3:04 UTC (Thu) by bojan (subscriber, #14302)
I run F-17, Gnome 3 fallback. Local desktop with mutter, remote one with metacity (mutter too slow on a VM).
> Right clicking does nothing. I've no idea what "Go to a place" means.
Just another two regressions introduced in Gnome 3, really.
Go to a place means clicking on Places and picking one. Right clicking does plenty when you have Nautilus run your desktop. If you install nautilus-open-terminal, it does even more.
> (I'm pretty convinced you've got your timeline wrong regarding Windows 8 and Gnome 3)
Possibly. Still, Nielsen's review of Windows 8 appears rather applicable to Gnome 3, as many ideas are the same.
Posted Nov 22, 2012 23:57 UTC (Thu) by luya (subscriber, #50741)
Posted Nov 22, 2012 5:36 UTC (Thu) by Trelane (subscriber, #56877)
I suspect it would be very enlightening to watch these users under a controlled environment in gnome2 and then in gnome3 ti see where precisely the disconnects come and to see if my hunch above is correct.
Posted Nov 22, 2012 6:21 UTC (Thu) by bojan (subscriber, #14302)
Yes, I use workspaces to separate things (they are called _work_ _spaces_ for a reason). Most times by task, but sometimes simply because there is not enough space to hold all the required windows to complete one task open at the same time (yes, some of us actually use more than _one_ window at one time). The old MS Windows paradigm of minimise/raise is rather messy compared to seeing _everything_ in the workspace switcher and going there with one click (i.e. most times, no window is behind anything).
Static nature of workspaces (which to Gnome developer's credit has been reintroduced) is essential for visual orientation. If you read that paper by Nielsen that I pointed to, you'll see that he talks about "glancing" being superior to "switching", because you don't really have to do anything other than raise your eyes to do it. That is what workspace switcher is for, window thumbnails included.
Gnome 3 has zero visibility. That is problem number one. Gnome 3 needs two view switches for every workspace change (using GUI). That's problem number two.
Don't get me wrong. I use "activities overview" on my Android phone all the time, because there is no space to put everything on the "desktop" there. Not so on my computer. So, I don't see why I should be RFC1925(6)-ed all the time...
Posted Nov 22, 2012 15:08 UTC (Thu) by pboddie (subscriber, #50784)
Posted Nov 22, 2012 18:43 UTC (Thu) by paulj (subscriber, #341)
Posted Nov 27, 2012 0:16 UTC (Tue) by BenHutchings (subscriber, #37955)
Even the UI to configure the shortcut keys is gone, had to futz in dconf.
It's under System Settings, Keyboard, Shortcuts tab, Navigation group. (This is in GNOME 3.2, hopefully not removed since!)
Posted Nov 27, 2012 0:41 UTC (Tue) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239)
Posted Nov 27, 2012 8:46 UTC (Tue) by paulj (subscriber, #341)
Though, both Cinnamon and GNOME Shell induce occasional complete lockups of the X server with Nouveau in Fedora 16. When I upgrade to Fedora 18 I'll see if that's improved (must have right - "force drivers to get better" was one of the aims of GNOME Shell going 3D, no?). Till then I have to stick to XFCE.
Posted Nov 22, 2012 18:51 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304)
Dynamic grids (and similar things such as the dynamically-changing alt-tab ordering of many windowing environments) *ruin* this sort of geographic metaphor completely. They must not be the only available option, or those of us who use geographic metaphors are left completely out in the cold. (I've been using this metaphor for so long that I actually feel *seasick* in a GUI that uses some other metaphor, as if the solid ground has turned to water, and yes, I get all the physiological responses that go with seasickness, too. Getting any work done in that state is hopeless.)
There's nothing wrong with a grid that expands dynamically as you use more workspaces, but moving existing things around, or changing the navigation between existing things without explicit user permission, will break the model and break the workflow of people like me. (And cause me to lose my lunch!)
Posted Nov 23, 2012 9:51 UTC (Fri) by marcH (subscriber, #57642)
Posted Nov 23, 2012 11:58 UTC (Fri) by stevem (subscriber, #1512)
You're describing something very similar to my own working habits here...
Posted Nov 23, 2012 19:42 UTC (Fri) by nix (subscriber, #2304)
Posted Nov 23, 2012 11:59 UTC (Fri) by hholzgra (subscriber, #11737)
Posted Nov 22, 2012 16:31 UTC (Thu) by niko (subscriber, #80138)
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