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LWN.net Weekly Edition for May 16, 2013
A look at the PyPy 2.0 release
PostgreSQL 9.3 beta: Federated databases and more
LWN.net Weekly Edition for May 9, 2013
(Nearly) full tickless operation in 3.10
GNOME Shell to support a "classic" mode
Posted Nov 21, 2012 19:16 UTC (Wed) by ebassi (subscriber, #54855)
So which version of Firefox removes great chunks of functionality making it essentially useless like GNOME3?
you got a question and now you feel the need to move the goal posts in order to "prove" to others that you're right, and everybody else is wrong.
you are a sad, sad person, and you have my pity.
Posted Nov 21, 2012 19:27 UTC (Wed) by Zizzle (guest, #67739)
And to prove your point you start calling names?
Posted Nov 21, 2012 19:32 UTC (Wed) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950)
Posted Nov 21, 2012 20:00 UTC (Wed) by Zizzle (guest, #67739)
Seriously, GNOME3 dropped a lot of functionality (some of which it still hasn't gotten back) which is is understandable for .0 release.
Why deny that and call me sad?
What is so hard to understand about users wanting to continue to use GNOME2 until GNOME3 becomes viable?
Sure, I replied in kind to the Company post. So that makes me sad?
Sure, GNOME2 - 3 is just like a 6 week firefox iteration. I'm the unreasonable one.
GNOME3 is above criticism? Defend GNOME3 at all costs?
Posted Nov 21, 2012 20:12 UTC (Wed) by cry_regarder (subscriber, #50545)
Posted Nov 21, 2012 20:13 UTC (Wed) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950)
In any case, you complain about "ad hominem", while continuously showing the similar behaviour (just directed at many people instead of 1). And not just this article. It seems similar to the "graffiti theory" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory#New_Yo...). If everyone responds nicely and rejects unnice behaviour, it'll likely be a nicer behaviour overall. To be clear: this is not directed at you. In this article alone you'll note that various people respond harshly towards each other. I noticed that corbet mentioned a while ago that he doesn't want moderation except in extreme cases. IMO this badly affects the comment quality.
You'll see that once the sarcasm stops, the chance of being heard vastly improves.
And criticism is very helpful. If everyone says yes, you only need 1 person.
Posted Nov 21, 2012 21:10 UTC (Wed) by Zizzle (guest, #67739)
Calling someone a sad person that you pity is more unnice.
But hey, criticism accepted, I will tone it down.
I think the real problem is that team GNOME considers anyone who says something they don't like or don't agree with, or says anything less that total praise for GNOME3 as a troll and not worth listening to.
Posted Nov 22, 2012 7:34 UTC (Thu) by jspaleta (subscriber, #50639)
You are coming off as hostile and perhaps a weebit passive aggressive.
Speaking from my own personal battle with the disorder...
If you are prone to sarcasm, and you don't have the necessarily health care to cover the cost of the meds to control it you can still make a series of choices on when and where you use sarcasm. Control the disorder don't let the disorder control you.
Among many strategies I have tried over the years, the one I find most successful in written communication forums is to keep bulk of the sarcastic comments aimed directly at oneself. I believe the term is self-deprecation. You still might not master right off the bat, unless your British, I'm not so I'm still working on it, but it does help take the edge off a bit when others are reading what I write. Instead of coming off as hostile, when making sarcastic jibes at other people, you just come off as a bit odd, muttering about yourself. And maybe this strategy isn't for you. Maybe you need electroshock therapy. I can't tell you want will work for you. Experiment... maybe try that electroshock stuff a couple of times just to be sure its not the right treatment for you.
Posted Nov 22, 2012 18:21 UTC (Thu) by paulj (subscriber, #341)
As someone who's been on the receiving end of your sarcasm elsewhere a few times, a good while ago, and not particularly enjoyed it: Bravo for recognising it and trying to address it. I hope I could do the same if/when needs be. ;)
Not sure about the electroshock treatment though. ;)
Posted Nov 22, 2012 13:41 UTC (Thu) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950)
I am on various mailing lists, mostly just to look for feedback and spot problems. Sometimes one person saying things is enough, sometimes only when many people say something.
Elsewhere the "faster horse" thing was mentioned. If someone gives feedback it can be various things:
- outright bugs
- hardware issues
- something that doesn't work right at the moment
- packaging problem
- performance (known or unknown)
- design/usability problems
All of that is useful to know, but there is not a one on one relation between this. E.g. a "don't drop fallback mode" criticism might be the result of something else, e.g. a hardware issue. Further, if someone doesn't like a nautilus 3.5.92 or even 3.6.0, it could be either a design issue, maybe not. Often what is expected that some suggestion must be implemented immediately. Not always possible... takes quite a bit of time to figure what the feedback really means. E.g. some stuff in gnome-shell 3.0.0 wasn't working nicely, but actually can be difficult to understand if feedback is in the form of "what are you doing?", "idiots", etc.
That's just interpreting feedback, after that knowing what to do, etc.
Not saying things couldn't/shouldn't be improved, just that the expectations are a bit high.
Note that recently I saw a few designers commenting on usability testing, saying that big usability tests (like Sun did) would be very welcome and is a bit lacking atm.
Posted Nov 22, 2012 20:58 UTC (Thu) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950)
I was too aggressive, not only to you. Sorry for that.
Posted Nov 21, 2012 19:40 UTC (Wed) by Company (guest, #57006)
... and that was just a quick look.
Posted Nov 21, 2012 19:58 UTC (Wed) by Zizzle (guest, #67739)
Never had a problem with autocomplete not working.
> 4: messed up UI
Wow, detailed and scathing criticism there.
Maybe I will use that gem on the next GNOME release.
> 6: fucked up the location bar by making stuff gray
Yep, surely that is on par with GNOME3 removing the ability to change the font size, or minimize windows or getting rid of the task bar.
Or the hideous and unchangeable and largely useless black bar across the top of the screen.
> 7: broke copy/paste from location bar
Sounds like a bug more than an intentional design change. Never experienced it here though.
> 8: needs manual fudging for add-ons
Sorry I forgot Gnome extensions are fully supported and always work perfectly.
> 9: messed up UI again
Wow once again, such constructive criticism.
> 10: removed forward arrow
Hmmm... I have a forward arrow here.
> 13: added the horrendous "home tab"
Easily disabled since you know, they actually support user preferences.
> 15: suddenly auto-updates without asking
Which is bad why?
But the GNOME3 defense is now - "Others make crappy software so we can too".
Posted Nov 21, 2012 20:12 UTC (Wed) by Company (guest, #57006)
Tip: Do your own distro, it can come with all your favorite versions of all your favorite software!
Posted Nov 21, 2012 20:34 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
Posted Nov 21, 2012 20:17 UTC (Wed) by drago01 (subscriber, #50715)
1) You can still change the font size
2) You can re enable that feature
3) There is an extension available for that
> Sounds like a bug more than an intentional design change. Never experienced it here though.
He probably means the hiding of the "http" and adding it to the pasted url even though it wasn't part of the copied url.
> Easily disabled ...
So now changing options is acceptable? (see the 3 points above).
Posted Nov 21, 2012 20:40 UTC (Wed) by Zizzle (guest, #67739)
Seriously? You had to (still do?) need to install a separate tool search through and hack the registry.
Not the same as opening a preferences dialog.
You guys just cannot concede anything. GNOME3.0 was perfect.
Posted Nov 21, 2012 23:55 UTC (Wed) by drago01 (subscriber, #50715)
> You had to (still do?) need to install a separate tool
> search through and hack the registry.
No you have to just to click on a few buttons in said tool ... not exactly rocket science.
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