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Mena-Quintero: A Friday rant on Gnome 3, journalists, and power usersMena-Quintero: A Friday rant on Gnome 3, journalists, and power usersPosted Nov 11, 2012 12:43 UTC (Sun) by jospoortvliet (subscriber, #33164)In reply to: Mena-Quintero: A Friday rant on Gnome 3, journalists, and power users by hnasarat Parent article: Mena-Quintero: A Friday rant on Gnome 3, journalists, and power users
Not unreasonable imho. GTK does have very few resources, they're not exactly like Qt with hundreds of full-time developers. So yeah, if you don't like how things go, help out.
I don't think you can blame Ottens and others for wanting to fundamentally improve GTK and bring it to the level that it can finally do proper CSS theming - it's long overdue. That creates breakage for a while but the alternative is standstill, which is not a real option imho.
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Mena-Quintero: A Friday rant on Gnome 3, journalists, and power users Posted Nov 11, 2012 13:41 UTC (Sun) by deepfire (subscriber, #26138) [Link]
You should reread the quotes by lead GNOME developers, really. For them it's not about improving GTK themeability via CSS, it's about politics geared to _reduce_ GTK themeability!
Mena-Quintero: A Friday rant on Gnome 3, journalists, and power users Posted Nov 11, 2012 14:16 UTC (Sun) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950) [Link]
Otte is a GTK+ developer. The rest are either designers, or involved in design and more importantly, not involved in GTK+.
Mena-Quintero: A Friday rant on Gnome 3, journalists, and power users Posted Nov 12, 2012 2:14 UTC (Mon) by Company (guest, #57006) [Link]
The designers are very much involved in GTK+ development. Their designs guide what features (widgets, themability, performance) we include, improve and drop in GTK. Their opinions on themability also influence what we think about it.
Of course, they don't have the final say and when we disagree, we try to find a solution that works for all of us.
In the context of themes, the GNOME project considers themes a bad thing, because you cannot advocate a unified design if you don't know how things are going to look in the end. This is not an uncommon view for desktop projects - neither OS X, iOS, Windows nor Android come with multiple designs.
But I'm saying it all the time, and am repeating it here: the GTK toolkit is defined by the people that take an interest and participate in developing it. And those people are currently almost 100% coming from the GNOME side. And as long as that is the case, expect GTK to be more and more the GNOME toolkit and less and less something else.
Mena-Quintero: A Friday rant on Gnome 3, journalists, and power users Posted Nov 12, 2012 12:46 UTC (Mon) by ewan (subscriber, #5533) [Link]
"neither OS X, iOS, Windows nor Android come with multiple designs"
Android comes with loads of designs; most handset manufacturers use their own to 'differentiate' their products, widgets can be themed, and entire components like the launcher and the home screen can be replaced. To say nothing of entirely different UXes like the ones embedded in TVs, e-readers etc.
I'm pretty sure quite a lot of the look of (desktop) Windows can be changed around too - I've just had a look in Control Panel on a machine I have access to and there's a whole 'Appearance and Personalization' section with sub-entries including 'Change the theme'.
Mena-Quintero: A Friday rant on Gnome 3, journalists, and power users Posted Nov 12, 2012 14:26 UTC (Mon) by vonbrand (subscriber, #4458) [Link] "Handset manufacturer replaces most of the GUI" != "end user tweaks theme" Ubuntu also replaced most of the UI of Gnome 3 with Unity, Microsoft changes the UI regularly to make their latest stuff look new.
Mena-Quintero: A Friday rant on Gnome 3, journalists, and power users Posted Nov 12, 2012 14:42 UTC (Mon) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]
Microsoft havn't changed the general template for their UI since windows '95. Even with the latest Windows 8, that basic template is still there apparently.
Mena-Quintero: A Friday rant on Gnome 3, journalists, and power users Posted Nov 13, 2012 16:40 UTC (Tue) by dgm (subscriber, #49227) [Link]
"General template" is vague enough to mean nothing. The point discussed in this thread is GTK+ themeability, and Microsoft indeed changes the UI theme with each and every release of Windows.
Mena-Quintero: A Friday rant on Gnome 3, journalists, and power users Posted Nov 12, 2012 15:28 UTC (Mon) by ewan (subscriber, #5533) [Link]
Maybe so, but as an end user I can replace these components too, straight from the Android Market/Play Store. And my default HTC setup has a 'personalize' button right on the main interface which allows me to tweak all sorts of stuff and install new skins.
Specifics aside, the general idea that it's impossible to design something useful if you don't know exactly how it's going to look is a nonsense.
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