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Wayland and Weston 1.0 releasedWayland and Weston 1.0 releasedPosted Oct 26, 2012 3:15 UTC (Fri) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313)In reply to: Wayland and Weston 1.0 released by drag Parent article: Wayland and Weston 1.0 released
> In addition to that you are not giving up X11 support by using Wayland
This is only true in the short term
As soon as some graphics toolkit decides that supporting both X11 and Wayland is 'too hard' you no longer have the option.
just look at the flap over GNOME maintainers deciding that supporting both systemd and non-systemd linux systems is 'too hard'
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Wayland and Weston 1.0 released Posted Oct 26, 2012 3:35 UTC (Fri) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]
Depends on what you meant by short term. Even in the longer run, there is bound to a lot of custom applications using X and compatibility cannot simply be dropped anytime within say 15 years or so. The broader community might not care but enterprise and hardware vendors who are funding Wayland or X development certainly do. It is not comparable to systemd and GNOME which has no real legacy to worry about.
Wayland and Weston 1.0 released Posted Oct 26, 2012 4:44 UTC (Fri) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link]
nobody is saying that your ability to run X applications is going to go away soon.
But we are concerned that the ability to run an X based desktop is going to go away
compatibility with wayland is a one-way street.
if the app is written for wayland it can talk to wayland
if the app is written for X it can talk to wayland
this is being excused by claiming that the major graphics toolkits support both, so you will never find an app that is wayland-only
I'm saying that this is only the case until some toolkit maintainer decides that it's "too hard" to continue to support X, after that, all software that uses that toolkit will be wayland-only.
If they were to make a shim layer that would let a wayland-only app show up on an X desktop, they would go a long way towards relieving this concern.
Wayland and Weston 1.0 released Posted Oct 26, 2012 6:12 UTC (Fri) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link]
Any remoting solution would work just as well in proxying Wayland-specific apps onto X desktops.
Wayland and Weston 1.0 released Posted Oct 26, 2012 11:34 UTC (Fri) by daniels (subscriber, #16193) [Link]
> If they were to make a shim layer that would let a wayland-only app show up on an X desktop, they would go a long way towards relieving this concern.
Weston has had, pretty much since day one, a really competent nested-under-X11 compositor backend. It works pretty much like Xephyr, in that your desktop is rooted rather than being window-by-window, but it works great.
If the clamour of people who genuinely need X11 and cannot live with anything else is so great, a solution for this will definitely emerge.
Wayland and Weston 1.0 released Posted Oct 27, 2012 8:41 UTC (Sat) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]
Apps are not "written for X11" today. They're written in some toolkit library, like Qt, GTK+, and the toolkit arranges the rendering (possibly via another library). Apps in the future will continue to be written to use toolkits. So "if the app is written for Wayland" is just a straw-man.
Apps in the future will continue, overwhelmingly, to be written to one of a small number of toolkits. At least some of these toolkits, including the 2 most popular, *already* support multiple rendering outputs (from X11, to Windows, to direct framebuffers, even to HTML!). Hell, they *already* support Wayland!
Your fear is unfounded. You can relax, your apps will, overwhelmingly, continue to work with X11, Wayland, whatever, without you or your apps having to care. X11 will continue to work, even if fewer people use it.
Wayland and Weston 1.0 released Posted Oct 26, 2012 8:25 UTC (Fri) by dgm (subscriber, #49227) [Link]
> As soon as some graphics toolkit decides that supporting both X11 and Wayland is 'too hard' you no longer have the option.
That would be true if you decided to base your work on a closed toolkit. Good luck then, anyway.
Wayland and Weston 1.0 released Posted Oct 26, 2012 13:34 UTC (Fri) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]
> As soon as some graphics toolkit decides that supporting both X11 and Wayland is 'too hard' you no longer have the option.
Like I said before:
If X11 networking is valuable then desktop programmers and users will continue to insist on it's usage.
Claiming that having the _option_ to not use X11 will lead to it's demise on the Linux desktop is effectively just admitting that the majority of people not only do not really on X's features, but would actually try to avoid using it because better alternatives exist for programming GUI applications.
The way I look at it is that X11 networking is inadequate at a best and if people would like to see it's continued existence then it's up to the X folks to make it more attractive then it's competition.
In addition to that due to it's API agnostic nature Wayland can actually facilitate the usage of a 'Improved X' then the current X Server-as-display-manager approach to things. However, honestly, I think that in the long term a improved X is not going to appear and people will use other methods for their remote desktop/application needs.
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