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Wayland and Weston 1.0 releasedWayland and Weston 1.0 releasedPosted Oct 24, 2012 17:40 UTC (Wed) by daniels (subscriber, #16193)In reply to: Wayland and Weston 1.0 released by nix Parent article: Wayland and Weston 1.0 released
The comment thread in https://lwn.net/Articles/481138/ has several instances of Wayland boosters doing down network-transparency as useless. Yeah, unfortunately I can't do anything about the armchair software developers. Everyone who's actually contributed to Wayland has always had the same answer: remoting's going to come, it'll be better than X, but it won't be part of the core protocol because we don't think that's the right approach. The FAQ is badly worded, but that'll get fixed.
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Wayland and Weston 1.0 released Posted Oct 25, 2012 0:12 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]
Agreed. I said 'boosters' not 'developers' for a reason :)
I suppose client-side remoting can fix this just as well as X can: the toolkit knows when you asked to print text, so can send just that over the wire perfectly well.
(It is disturbing to realise that in future different applications will have different degrees of support for remoting depending on what toolkit they're using, but I can't really claim that this differs from the current situation where they have different degrees of support for remoting depending on whether their developers ever tried to minimize roundtrips or whether they are using DRI. It's not as if 'it takes an hour for this program to map a window' is appreciably better than 'not working at all' -- and at least a 'just hurl giant bitmaps' fallback remoting program will work with everything, even if inefficiently.
I am slowly starting to be won over. Dammit. Can't you leave me *any* pointless irrational positions?
Wayland and Weston 1.0 released Posted Oct 25, 2012 4:00 UTC (Thu) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]
> I am slowly starting to be won over. Dammit. Can't you leave me *any* pointless irrational positions?
It's a pleasure to converse with someone who is at least willing to consider another persons position. There are plenty if people here that only seem interested in complaining but not listening, they are not much fun to talk to.
Wayland and Weston 1.0 released Posted Oct 31, 2012 15:40 UTC (Wed) by daglwn (subscriber, #65432) [Link]
I too have started to come around on this now that it's been made clear that remote display will be possible.
I didn't understand the distinction between "remote display" and "remote transparency" until you clarified that earlier and stated that remote display is indeed a needed feature. Thank you for clearing that up for me.
Wayland and Weston 1.0 released Posted Oct 25, 2012 15:36 UTC (Thu) by gidoca (subscriber, #62438) [Link]
As far as I understand from the XDC presentation video, it wouldn't be implemented in the toolkit, but as a special wayland compositor. On the computer you want to display the window, you would run the regular weston compositor, plus some client software. On the machine the application runs on, you would instead run some special compositor that speaks the wayland protocol, but sends the buffer over the wire instead of displaying it on the local display. Therefore, you wouldn't need anything special in the toolkit. Note that I don't know any more than what I learned from the talk, so take this with a grain of salt.
Wayland and Weston 1.0 released Posted Oct 28, 2012 15:58 UTC (Sun) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]
That's the fallback remoter, I think. The *real* remoting would be done in the toolkits, which know exactly what the application has done and can transmit data over the wire with correspondingly high efficiency, just as X does now only actually efficiently. (I hope there'll be a library of some sort implementing authentication and such things, so that the different toolkits don't end up with divergent ways of authenticating the remote connection with different user interfaces. xauth-plus-ssh is bad enough as it is...)
Wayland and Weston 1.0 released Posted Nov 1, 2012 19:22 UTC (Thu) by wmf (guest, #33791) [Link]
I think toolkit remoting is going to be much more complex (especially when you have to implement it N times) and not necessarily faster than bitmap remoting (cf. the Sun Labs SLIM project). Also, it creates more bad PR because it makes it look like Wayland remoting is five years away.
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