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Mozilla's web app store debuts in Firefox for AndroidMozilla's web app store debuts in Firefox for AndroidPosted Oct 19, 2012 22:59 UTC (Fri) by debacle (subscriber, #7114)In reply to: Mozilla's web app store debuts in Firefox for Android by wertigon Parent article: Mozilla's web app store debuts in Firefox for Android
Build your app store (used to be "repository") with `reprepro` and let users download their apps (used to be "packages") with `apt-get`, maybe?
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Mozilla's web app store debuts in Firefox for Android Posted Oct 20, 2012 13:57 UTC (Sat) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] Repository is fundamentally different from App Store. App Store makes it possible for the different competing parties to upload stuff. Even if there are review process (as in Apple's App Store) it looks on each app in isolation (sometimes Apple decides not to permit the app when it's competes with offers from Apple itself, but of course this is an aberration, not something to celebrate). Repository tries to create coherent whole from the disparate packages. It's easy see the difference: you can install apps from dozens of App Stores on Android - and the phone will work like a phone in the end, but try to mix dozens of random PPAs - and you can easily reach the state where the result will refuse to even boot. P.S. Of course it's entirely possible to offer examples of conflicting applications for Android and it's possible to show dozen of PPAs which don't conflict. This is about principle, not about the details: App Stores are designed to offer random software from random vendors which you can install without thinking—and sometimes it fails while repository offers coherent whole and is not designed to be mixed with other repositories—although sometimes you can do that if you are lucky.
Mozilla's web app store debuts in Firefox for Android Posted Oct 21, 2012 22:03 UTC (Sun) by hummassa (subscriber, #307) [Link]
The same thing you describe happens happily with some application combos on Apple's AppStore (when you reach the 300 on the number of apps installed, your risk of mixing unmixable apps is increased) and on Google Play Apps. I have had to uninstall one or other apps that made such effect and in one occasion, I had to reinstall the whole stack on my iPhone 3G.
Mozilla's web app store debuts in Firefox for Android Posted Oct 22, 2012 16:05 UTC (Mon) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] Sure, but to reach that state you need to install hundreds applications. And similarly with Firefox addons. In case of repos you don't need to install anything: add few PPAs, type "apt-get dist update; apt-get dist upgrade" and get your system completely hosed up.
Mozilla's web app store debuts in Firefox for Android Posted Oct 21, 2012 17:45 UTC (Sun) by wertigon (guest, #42963) [Link]
Yeah, something like APT, with three important differences;
1. Must be able to upload apps, or media files, or whatever through a review process
If someone would develop that protocol all of a sudden a good chunk of power comes back to us consumers/users. :)
Mozilla's web app store debuts in Firefox for Android Posted Oct 23, 2012 6:22 UTC (Tue) by epa (subscriber, #39769) [Link]
'Apps' are a subset of packages because they must be self-contained and installable without affecting anything else on the system. /bin/sh cannot be an app.
It would be cool to define 'app guidelines' for dpkg and rpm packages - the package must install to a few standard directories only, must not contain preinstall or postinstall scripts or suid binaries, etc - and then perhaps additionally run these packages in their own sandbox as Ubuntu is planning. Then while only root can install packages in general, ordinary users could install 'app packages'.
Mozilla's web app store debuts in Firefox for Android Posted Oct 23, 2012 8:48 UTC (Tue) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] Good offer. Now you've reached (at least in your mind) the state of oh-so-hostile-and-non-free Apple's AppStore. To make something like Android's AppStore reality you need to develop good sandboxing (and accompanying set of permissions) first. It's true that repos and AppStores are two points in the same continuum, but [contrary to the common belief] repos are years behind in the direction which matters. This is the same story again and again: geek community solves 99% of the problem, and then stops. Years later commercial company solves the same problem 100% (and thus makes it available for Joe Averages) and geeks howl: "WTF, we had this for years". No, you didn't. Here is another example: think remote access. Unix (and Linux) had it from the start (because of network transparency). But… the most common scenario Joe Average may need is pretty simple: it's waaay too late, I'm still on the work, I want to go home and finish the work from there. Can I somehow reach these windows I have opened on my desktop right now? Windows got the answer in 2001 (with Windows XP) and it worked fine ever since. Linux... still does not have a satisfying answer. Some distributions offer VNC-based solutions (which are not as capable because anyone who's still in office can interfere), but venerable X with all it's "network transparency" claims is still not usable for that.
Mozilla's web app store debuts in Firefox for Android Posted Oct 23, 2012 9:55 UTC (Tue) by epa (subscriber, #39769) [Link]
Agreed. Another thing that matters is binary compatibility. For years we in the free software world tried to convince ourselves that binary compatibility didn't matter (Mark Shuttleworth explicitly disclaimed the idea of 'compatibility at the level of binary blobs'), but it does. Otherwise, third party 'app' developers have no way to be sure their work won't be capriciously broken by some later update. Miguel went into this in his blog post which you may have already read: http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html
Mozilla's web app store debuts in Firefox for Android Posted Oct 26, 2012 13:01 UTC (Fri) by juliank (subscriber, #45896) [Link]
Right, but we can't really get rid of postinst scripts currently, as we need to do stuff like rebuilding icon caches. A solution would be declarative scripts which can be checked for correctness; or converting thus things to triggers (and equivalents on non-deb systems).
Mozilla's web app store debuts in Firefox for Android Posted Oct 26, 2012 15:31 UTC (Fri) by debacle (subscriber, #7114) [Link]
Yes, for most packages having a full root shell in {pre,post}{rm,install} is not necessary anyway. Everything that is generated by dh (dh_icons, dh_installmenu, dh_installmime, ...) could be turned into triggers or similar.
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