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An "enum" for Python 3
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A look at the PyPy 2.0 release
Quotes of the week
Posted Oct 19, 2012 0:38 UTC (Fri) by jschrod (subscriber, #1646)
Having fought the last few months some »marketing« folks and so-called designers, I can fully appreciate situations where developers, adressed by her as technical single-minds, start to rebell. There are many projects where I haven't even been allowed to bring our own communication designers to work on the design. Similar situations exists in OSS project situations and are not adressed by her at all, while crucial.
As well, *real* marketing-professionals, in my experience, don't culture such hinderance to business goals, as she describes. That's why I put the term »marketing« in quotes above. Real professionals from that area, that I work with, are interested in *why* it is so hard, and don't disqualify this as a trivial matter as her post does. They are interested in the project results, are willing to contribute their part, and are not afraid of getting dirty by disussing it with the techs.
As the commenter tells, it's all about being part of the dev team, not being superior to it. I'm working now since 25+ years in this business, bringing UX design to real products, and Crystal Beasley has still a lot to learn about it; IMNSHO.
For the folks reading it: It's not as bad as she tells. The issue is identifying the professionals that you want to work with. Choose a good one, and take your time selecting one. It will be worth it.
Posted Nov 1, 2012 14:49 UTC (Thu) by sumanah (guest, #59891)
I read Crystal Beasley's post, and the comments, and she's absolutely not snide at all. Everything she's saying is not only true and respectful, it's not even controversial. In general, coders don't know what to expect from user experience designers: yes. Developers don't have good judgment procedures to know whether proposed designs are correct: yep. And so on for all of her points.
If you think there's an additional point to add regarding high-handed designers who don't listen or collaborate effectively, you haven't actually read the post, in which she says: "The solutions to all these problems lie in communication and building a trusted relationship. It’s a higher barrier for designers that takes time to overcome. I've found all of my team to be receptive when I've taken the time to explain the principles that guide my decisions." How in the world is that snide, or trivializing the problem?
Posted Nov 1, 2012 15:22 UTC (Thu) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198)
>>“representing the work of a designer requires a shift in culture of the dev team”
>BS. A gigantic and stinking pile of BS.
>Becoming _part_ of a dev team requires a shift in culture *of the designed*.
>Designers should stop thinking that they lead or guide the dev team. Make your _proposals_ in a >humble and collaborative language and you will be heard, like everybody else. Try to impose your >“vision” from high in the sky and you will be… ignored. It’s that simple.
This comment seems to match the thinking of the OP. It asserts that designers should not bring their professional knowledge to the dev team, should not bring vision or guidance but should instead be humble in the presence of developers. I don't know whether this is supposed to be sexist or elitist but it's not a successful collaboration strategy.
Posted Nov 1, 2012 18:27 UTC (Thu) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313)
> I am an expert, you must listen to me, and you don't know enough to even question my direction
is going to be ignored.
It doesn't matter if this person is a designer, a coder, a DBA, or a networking person. That attitude just doesn't fir with open projects.
You need to become part of the project, make small suggestions first, and back up your suggestions with reasons for them to be implemented (not just "because I say so and I'm the expert")
Unfortunantly, many designers do take the attitude that other people aren't qualified to question their design.
This is not saying that they are being asked to be humble in the presence of the mighty developers, it's asking them to be humble in the presence of the established team, just like a new developer would need to be.
Posted Nov 1, 2012 18:49 UTC (Thu) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198)
which doesn't work either.
Posted Nov 2, 2012 6:24 UTC (Fri) by viro (subscriber, #7872)
Posted Nov 5, 2012 12:15 UTC (Mon) by hummassa (subscriber, #307)
Designers and developers should learn as a principle to understand and respect each other. This includes both knowing when and how to explain each one's arguments and when to stop short of the "go learn to code" or "go learn to design" shoutmatch.
Posted Nov 5, 2012 19:05 UTC (Mon) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313)
to be fair, there are very few good programmers around as well, but the ones who aren't good tend to get weeded out rater quickly in successful opensource projects (and they stand out by comparison with the good ones)
There are so few designers who try to get involved in opensource projects that it's hard to make comparisons between them.
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