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Distribution quotes of the week
When, as in the case of node.js, upstream is antisocial and has an
overinflated sense of self-importance, it's perfectly appropriate for Debian
to work contrary to their design. Our job is not to make upstreams happy,
it's to make our *users* happy; and while being good Free Software citizens
means we try to respect the wishes of upstreams as well, there are
exceptions.
-- Steve Langasek
I use RMS as a guide in the same way that a boat captain would use a
lighthouse. It's good to know where it is, but you generally don't want
to find yourself in the same spot.
-- Tollef Fog Heen (Thanks to Chris Cunningham)
For F19 I plan to submit a feature asking for not installing syslog by
default anymore. I wonder how far I'll get with this before this is
shut down by the conservatives... ;-)
-- Lennart Poettering
Note: I don't want to smash down the discussion with a lame "show me the
code" argument. But I do want to avoid the impression that "we're unable
to decide" when I fact, in this case, we are and we did. But that's,
unfortunately, not enough to make appear out of thin area the code
implementing the decision.
-- Stefano Zacchiroli(Log in to post comments)
Distribution quotes of the week Posted Oct 19, 2012 10:57 UTC (Fri) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] For F19 I plan to submit a feature asking for not installing syslog by default anymore.... he's serious. Gosh it's a good thing nobody has scripts or programs that parse logfiles, isn't it. Oh wait. (Though he doesn't recommend removing it. Yet.)
Distribution quotes of the week Posted Oct 19, 2012 15:15 UTC (Fri) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]
Journal is pixel-perfectly compatible with syslogd, so your scripts would work fine with it.
Distribution quotes of the week Posted Oct 19, 2012 18:26 UTC (Fri) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link]
This is the first that I've heard of this.
Since it's rsyslog that's being removed, how much of the rsyslog.conf and rsyslog.d/*.conf will Journal understand?
My understanding was that the Journal authors were claiming that you could feed the data into the journal with syslog tools, but that accessing the data required new tools (due to all the new capabilities that the journal introduced), and that the files created were in a new, binary format to support the new anti-modification stuff (among other things)
Distribution quotes of the week Posted Oct 19, 2012 18:56 UTC (Fri) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]
Journal doesn't understand rsyslog's config, but it outputs syslog in exactly the same format by default (by design).
Distribution quotes of the week Posted Oct 19, 2012 19:13 UTC (Fri) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link]
If it doesn't understand the configs, how does it tell which logs to output to which files?
Or is all this just hard-coded somewhere to match the Fedora default?
With rsyslog, .rpm packages could drop .conf files into /etc/rsyslog.d to provide package specific configs.
Distribution quotes of the week Posted Oct 19, 2012 18:50 UTC (Fri) by Baylink (subscriber, #755) [Link]
My response to Lennart, and Fedora in general, mostly, is "that's fine, sonny, but this here's the fleet."
More power to all those people who want to experiment with new stuff (like, um, KDE4, which is *still* not ready for prime time (I'm looking at *you*, SuSE)), but I use Linux to Get Real Work Done For Clients, and I don't have time for that sort of thing, in general, nor for my distribution managers to pull it on me.
And please, let me not hear "but you don't have to upgrade"; sure I do: otherwise they'll EOL the distribution and in some cases (I'm looking at *you* SuSE), *gratuitously move the repos* so the OS can't even get the last set of security updates from them.
(In the case of SuSE 8, I think it was, you *couldn't even tell it where the repo WAS*, to make up for that gratuitous move.)
Distribution quotes of the week Posted Oct 19, 2012 21:34 UTC (Fri) by AndreE (subscriber, #60148) [Link]
If you use Linux to get Real Work Done (tm), then you shouldn't be using Fedora, right? You should be using an enterprise distro which is more conservative, as opposed to a distro that is quite clearly fast moving and forward thinking.
As far as I'm aware, RHEL hasn't yet introduced systemd, which is planned for RHEL 7 Q2 2013, so any adoption of the journal is at least two years away.
As for support, RHEL 6 should be supported until at least 2016, so not sure what the issue is there either.
Distribution quotes of the week Posted Oct 20, 2012 11:33 UTC (Sat) by BlueLightning (subscriber, #38978) [Link] KDE4, which is *still* not ready for primeNonsense. I use it for work every day. What makes you think this?
Distribution quotes of the week Posted Oct 20, 2012 12:12 UTC (Sat) by hummassa (subscriber, #307) [Link]
I second that. With the honorable exception of Konqueror 3 (it was a better browser than Firefox at the time), I don't miss any piece of KDE3.
Distribution quotes of the week Posted Oct 20, 2012 16:50 UTC (Sat) by sfeam (subscriber, #2841) [Link] I'm still missing kprinter. I should not have to figure out which program is needed to open and separately print every file in a list of things to be printed, especially given that they do not all present the same print options; the print system itself should figure that out.
Distribution quotes of the week Posted Oct 21, 2012 15:10 UTC (Sun) by mirabilos (subscriber, #84359) [Link]
Konqueror 3 at work (legacy company desktop) is decent and fast.
Sure, some fancy new web applications don’t work with it, but I consider that a feature. (That being said, my primary browser at home is Lynx.)
It could use some bugfixes, e.g. SIGSEGV on a Launchpad bugs page nowadays, but other than that, it’s fast, looks decent and is pretty usable.
KDE 4, on the other hand… *shudder* I’ve installed kdepim on my new work-laptop (running sid) because I must, but there’s a reason IceWM and evilwm exist, ya know.
Distribution quotes of the week Posted Oct 25, 2012 12:36 UTC (Thu) by Duncan (guest, #6647) [Link]
FWIW, kde4's quite good once it's built with the semantic-desktop cycle and space-stealing malware turned off. On gentoo, that's a flip of a few USE flags and a rebuild.
Of course that means no akonadi, since it's semantic-desktop integrated, which means no kdepim (including kmail) of any sort, since even for stuff that doesn't (yet) require akonadi directly, the kdepim libs stuff pulls it in as a mandatory dependency, but being rid of that message disappearing-trick software was actually what triggered the whole OK, with that gone, I might as well turn off the whole semantic-desktop thing in the first place.
Now kde4's nice and lean and snappy, better than kde3 was. =:^)
Meanwhile, I too ran konqueror for years. Unfortunately, in kde4 it became quite apparent that the kde and konqueror devs themselves considered it little more than a toy. Because they insisted kde4, including konqueror, was ready for normal use, /years/ before it had a proper SSL/TLS certificate management GUI... this in an age when not only individual certs need deactivated, but whole certificate authorities! Similarly, there was the infamous double-form-submit bug of kde 4.6.x, introduced in the middle of a stable cycle, but worse than that, taking two monthly bugfix releases to fix.
So there's only two conclusions possible about the kde/konqueror devs. They either don't care about security at all, in which case the browser with its primary remote attack surface exposure is "just a toy", certainly NOT fit for "normal use" like online purchases and banking (double-form-submit, security cert management issues, both VERY bad problems to have there!). Or they care, but they specifically consider konqueror no more that a toy that nobody would use for "normal use" like online banking anyway, so much like say the comic-strip-plasmoid, it's just a toy, for non-serious entertainment purposes only.
But firefox with the noscript and request-policy extensions (plus perspectives and dnssec validator) is both higher security and higher compatibility, with the noscript and request-policy extensions in particular both much easier to work with than having to dig thru page code to figure out what to try enabling in konqueror to hopefully have a page working without google-analytics or the like. There's no way konqueror could keep up with noscript alone, without a much larger userbase to support it. So it was time to switch in any case.
I do wish kde's and firefox's bookmarks could be integrated, tho. That's the remaining frustration. I keep a classic-menu set to bookmarks on a panel, and with the appropriate kde setting they launch in firefox fine. But it's one-way-only. I have to launch kde's bookmark editor to save new bookmarks, and that's a huge pain compared to the integrated bookmark saving, updating both the bookmark plasmoid and the konqueor bookmarks themselves, that konqueror had. Oh, well...
Duncan
Distribution quotes of the week Posted Oct 25, 2012 10:32 UTC (Thu) by ovitters (subscriber, #27950) [Link] My response to Lennart, and Fedora in general, mostly, is "that's fine, sonny, but this here's the fleet."yum install rsyslog
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