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MeeGo to return next month with Jolla phone launch (The H)MeeGo to return next month with Jolla phone launch (The H)Posted Oct 7, 2012 21:36 UTC (Sun) by shmerl (guest, #65921)In reply to: MeeGo to return next month with Jolla phone launch (The H) by khim Parent article: MeeGo to return next month with Jolla phone launch (The H)
Normal Linux is one that shares stack and effort with its desktop counterpart. Architecture wise (especially in the graphical stack, such as Wayland).
Android crippled in many things in its own architecture. The release of a second class citizen NDK didn't mitigate Android shortcomings.
Mobile Linux (such as Mer and derivatives) had and has chances. And it will succeed, Android regardless.
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MeeGo to return next month with Jolla phone launch (The H) Posted Oct 7, 2012 23:17 UTC (Sun) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] Normal Linux is one that shares stack and effort with its desktop counterpart. Ah. Then the problem can be very easily solved: just build desktop around the Android. And I'm only half-joking. Android crippled in many things in its own architecture. The release of a second class citizen NDK didn't mitigate Android shortcomings. Android is limited, I'll grant you that. But it does not mean that it'll continue to be limited forever. It's [relatively] easy to add missing functionality. It's not easy to convince users to switch. Mobile Linux (such as Mer and derivatives) had and has chances. If you want to believe in fairy tales then it's your choice. At least others pointed to the reason for why then think there are some small hope left, your position is just pure wishful thinking.
MeeGo to return next month with Jolla phone launch (The H) Posted Oct 10, 2012 3:39 UTC (Wed) by shmerl (guest, #65921) [Link]
I prefer to use a good mature system, instead of fixing a crippled one.
MeeGo to return next month with Jolla phone launch (The H) Posted Oct 10, 2012 6:52 UTC (Wed) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] You don't have a "good mature system" to use. There are no hardware to run it on. This Mobile Linux (such as Mer and derivatives) had and has chances story looks as hopeless as the esperanto story. Esperantists also can not understand why people are willing to spend years of their life and [collectively] hundred of billions of dollars to learn "crippled" English language when Esperanto is so much easier to learn and use. But the answer is obvious: with English you can gen sensible ROI (if you known English then this directly translates to higher salary in many countries), but with Esperanto... why would you bother? Similarly with "crippled" Android and your "good mature system": with Android you can reach billions of users out there (sales of Android phones will surpass billion in 2013), but with that "good mature system" you maybe, just maybe, will create something which you can share with ten of thousands GTA04 users. Why bother? Sure, some people will code anyway (hey, if people are still keeping Haiku, ReactOS, and even Hurd alive then you can bet there will be someone who'll keep this "good mature system" on lifesupport), but can you call this "success"?
MeeGo to return next month with Jolla phone launch (The H) Posted Oct 10, 2012 16:43 UTC (Wed) by shmerl (guest, #65921) [Link]
You just don't like that something better can come out, that current inferior Android. But I don't really see a reason not to like it, and being so defensive about an inferior technology. Hardware is coming, and Jolla is working precisely on that.
MeeGo to return next month with Jolla phone launch (The H) Posted Oct 11, 2012 14:51 UTC (Thu) by union (subscriber, #36393) [Link]
I agree, that standard linux is better than Android from tehnical standpoint.
Unfortunately in marketplace technical standpoint is mostly irrelevant. I mean IOS is nothing to write home about from technical standpoint either.
Doesn't metter how much better MeeGo is than Android or IOS if nobody will use it.
Unless there is some entity that is prepared to spend billions (or at lest hundreds of millions ) on marketing MeeGo, and bootstrap its app market this will not change.
MeeGo to return next month with Jolla phone launch (The H) Posted Oct 8, 2012 1:48 UTC (Mon) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]
How EXACTLY is Android limited? NDK apps can now be compiled without ANY Java code at all. There is even a ported X-server for Android for those who need it.
MeeGo to return next month with Jolla phone launch (The H) Posted Oct 10, 2012 3:31 UTC (Wed) by shmerl (guest, #65921) [Link]
Many examples, but let's take something simple. For instance, try using DBus on Android. Good luck with it.
MeeGo to return next month with Jolla phone launch (The H) Posted Oct 10, 2012 13:29 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]
You can do it just fine. What's the problem?
MeeGo to return next month with Jolla phone launch (The H) Posted Oct 14, 2012 19:19 UTC (Sun) by rwmj (subscriber, #5474) [Link]
Lack of DBus, and all the other GNOME-ish crap like *Kit, is a feature not a bug.
MeeGo to return next month with Jolla phone launch (The H) Posted Oct 10, 2012 3:38 UTC (Wed) by shmerl (guest, #65921) [Link]
My issues with Android however are of a deeper nature. It started as a proprietary project, and its architecture design didn't consider needs of the global Linux community when it was created. At that stage it was OK for it, but later it became a problem. Since now it's widespread, while still being community unfriendly. Linux community for example shifts from X to Wayland, and that's where drivers are shifting as well. Android just goes its own incompatible road, showing everyone one big fat "No way" sign (i.e. try getting X/Wayland drivers from any manufacturer who is too busy with Android - and good luck with that).
MeeGo to return next month with Jolla phone launch (The H) Posted Oct 10, 2012 6:36 UTC (Wed) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] It started as a proprietary project, and its architecture design didn't consider needs of the global Linux community when it was created. Sure, but it did consider the needs of manufacturers and users. Linux community for example shifts from X to Wayland, and that's where drivers are shifting as well. Android just goes its own incompatible road, showing everyone one big fat "No way" sign (i.e. try getting X/Wayland drivers from any manufacturer who is too busy with Android - and good luck with that). I can understand the problem with X, but Wayland is new. Why was it not developer to reuse Android drivers? Is it impossible or just to hard? Can they propose some specific changes to make Android drivers usable for them? I don't think they've ever looked - and that is the problem. It's the same ages old story: "Linux community" tries to impose requirements on others without offering them anything interesting. Why would they accept such bargain? Manufacturers know how to count money very well indeed. When drivers allow them to sell hardware for billions of dollars (on server) they spent a lot of efforts, when they can sell hundreds of millions chips they spend a lot of time and money to support Android. But why will they need or want to suport X/Wayland? Where is the money in that?
MeeGo to return next month with Jolla phone launch (The H) Posted Oct 10, 2012 9:37 UTC (Wed) by dgm (subscriber, #49227) [Link]
The good news: the current Wayland implementation is based on EGL and GLES2, which most (all?) Android drivers provide.
The bad news: Wayland also needs KMS and some extensions added to Mesa. I believe that the amount of work needed for adding this is peanuts compared with supporting GLES, for example, but it will take time to get the required code into the kernel and out to the user's machines.
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