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Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) DesktopMeeks: Linux on the (consumer) DesktopPosted Sep 11, 2012 15:17 UTC (Tue) by karim (subscriber, #114)Parent article: Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop
Personally I'm surprised this debate is happening at all. By the numbers I'm seeing, the desktop is in decline. How you expand in a declining market is something that profoundly evades me.
Some random nitpicking:
The only question is whether the Linux desktop can help someone somewhere make more money, lots of it. Android had a good story for that. The Linux desktop not so much. Until that's resolved, and I posit that it can't because the desktop world is declining, then we're not going anywhere.
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Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 11, 2012 15:20 UTC (Tue) by yokem_55 (subscriber, #10498) [Link]
The desktop isn't declining. It just isn't growing as fast as it used to. Just because there is explosive growth in mobile (handhelds & tablets) doesn't mean there are less people needing a real workstation or laptop to do real work on....
Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 11, 2012 17:00 UTC (Tue) by oak (subscriber, #2786) [Link]
Michael proposes concentrating on business desktop instead of consumer one, but I think some smaller desktop niches could be worth going after too.
For example I've understood Linux to have fairly good support for pro audio production (assuming one is willing to invest a bit of effort). That kind of content creation "niches" could be good target; sound effects, music, videos, animations, radio, leaflets, document processing etc.
Linux "marketing folks" could then construct success stories out of successful migrations from costly & proprietary software workflows to free ones, what to expect i.e. what are the pros & cons compared to proprietary offerings etc.
Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 11, 2012 16:53 UTC (Tue) by dashesy (subscriber, #74652) [Link]
Maybe desktop as we know it is in decline, but don't you think once something like Ubuntu on Android becomes a norm, it may come back with a smaller form factor but still big screens?
Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 11, 2012 16:58 UTC (Tue) by karim (subscriber, #114) [Link]
THAT is one of the only case scenarios where I see Linux desktop still being able to make a dent: as a way to make regular Android a killer desktop environment.
But still, someone somewhere is going to have to show dollar for customers wanting this. Maybe this one can actually be made possible by creating a cool "Linux desktop" *app* that you can get from Google Play. Maybe, just maybe, this might have a chance.
Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 11, 2012 17:37 UTC (Tue) by karim (subscriber, #114) [Link]
Actually, this is even better:
http://www.nexcrea.com/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rn3oR0FEg4
I'm sold
Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 11, 2012 20:04 UTC (Tue) by dashesy (subscriber, #74652) [Link]
Yes, that is beautiful! I just wish it comes to life before Apple steals the idea and sells it to the masses as their own invention. It is the first punch that has the most impact on the market.
Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 11, 2012 23:12 UTC (Tue) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] Actually it was possible to buy the finished device for a few months so Apple is late, way too late. Working prototype was demoed year ago and now you can buy it… if you want.
Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 11, 2012 21:01 UTC (Tue) by oever (subscriber, #987) [Link]
It's a nice idea. Will it become reality and will the hardware be open?
Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 11, 2012 23:22 UTC (Tue) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] Will it become reality? Wrong question. Right question: will it become popular? The answer is: probably not yet. There are a lot of rough edges, but hey, it's the first version! will the hardware be open? Of course not! It's basis is a phone, right? There are lots of regulations involved. Certified open hardware is not possible. This is sad reality, but this is a reality we live in.
Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 12, 2012 11:18 UTC (Wed) by bokr (subscriber, #58369) [Link] will the hardware be open?Of course not! It's basis is a phone, right? There are lots of regulations involved. Certified open hardware is not possible. This is sad reality, but this is a reality we live in. Wrong monolithic concept: The basis is a ("smart") phone, but it's the radiating comms part that is regulated, not the general purpose ("smart") computing part with its non-radiating peripherals. Already the video shows the smart part interfacing to various devices. Just have the comms part also be a separate hardware module, like a mobile broadband usb device, except with slick way to connect to the nex phone body and still feel like a fondleable phone. If the protocol and drivers for controlling it are open, the comms part as hardware could even be closed and still provide a lot of freedom, somewhat like proprietary gpu firmware blobs loaded by trying-to-be-open graphics drivers. The process of testing and certifying the regulated part is expensive, so you can't afford to change design on the model of Linux kernel software. But it could be done, and with a comms module with a long term stable open hardware interface, the rest of the system could develop freely on its own.
Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 12, 2012 18:00 UTC (Wed) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] Just have the comms part also be a separate hardware module, like a mobile broadband usb device, except with slick way to connect to the nex phone body and still feel like a fondleable phone. What's the point of this exercise? To create more power-hungry, larger and heavier device just to satisfy two extra geeks? Not gonna happen. Wrong monolithic concept: The basis is a ("smart") phone, but it's the radiating comms part that is regulated, not the general purpose ("smart") computing part with its non-radiating peripherals. Wrong. The basis novadays is a single SOC. I seriously doubt anyone will want to go back to discrete components with separate radio and computational parts (currently this is biggest problem with Intel's offers and of course Intel plans to rectify that). This makes open hardware basically impossible. It does not mean software for computational part can not be open and free, but that's different matter. The process of testing and certifying the regulated part is expensive, so you can't afford to change design on the model of Linux kernel software. But it could be done, and with a comms module with a long term stable open hardware interface, the rest of the system could develop freely on its own. The question: who'll pay for all that utopia? Qualcomm and nVidia have more then enough buyers with the existing SOC's and it's not clear that any new ones for the described separate set with radio and computation parts will ever materialize. I'm not talking about one or two guys but about big enough sales to justify R&D efforts. And even if you'll do that you'll still need to pass the certification tests—and these are for devices, not for components. If you want to ever dream about something like this with "open hardware" you have a long, long, LONG road ahead of you.
Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 12, 2012 18:25 UTC (Wed) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link]
the comms part is ALREADY a separate hardware module.
The people who claim that phones have to be locked down for legal reasons just don't know what they are talking about.
you can already buy phones that are not locked down and can have whatever OS installed on them that you want. It's just that most of the phone providers try to discourage such phones.
Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 12, 2012 21:03 UTC (Wed) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] the comms part is ALREADY a separate hardware module. s/ALREADY/STILL/ The people who claim that phones have to be locked down for legal reasons just don't know what they are talking about. Please stop mixing issues. The question was: will the hardware be open. And the answer is obvious: no, hardware can not be open for a legal reason. Now, the talks about "separate hardware module" are all nice and good, but times are changing. Let's return to padfone, shell we. It's built around Qualcomm's MSM8260A. What is MSM8260A? Well, it's SOC which includes, CPU, GPU, BT 4.0, 802.11a/b/g/n (2.4/5 GHz), GSM, UMTS, DC-HSPA+, and TD-SCDMA. Basically everything you need to build a phone. But since you bundle together CPU and radio part you can not built open hardware around this. The best you can hope for is open software on main CPU and proprietary blob which drives the whole thing.
Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 12, 2012 20:31 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]
That's actually not a problem. Radio modems can be integrated onto the SoC die, but they can remain logically separate devices with some sort of formalized communication protocol with the main CPU module.
Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 11, 2012 18:52 UTC (Tue) by job (guest, #670) [Link]
If you actually think there are LESS people working in front of a computer every day than there used to be, you'd better have some numbers to back that up. Because a lot more people than I will just think it's crazy talk.
Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 11, 2012 21:56 UTC (Tue) by wookey (subscriber, #5501) [Link]
fewer
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Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 11, 2012 21:34 UTC (Tue) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]
> Personally I'm surprised this debate is happening at all. By the numbers I'm seeing, the desktop is in decline. How you expand in a declining market is something that profoundly evades me.
More people use desktops now then they ever did in the past.
The PC market itself is in decline because you don't need to buy new computers every 3 years to keep up with changing software technology. A core 2 duo computer from 2007 is just as useful today as it was when it was new. Only now computers from 2005 are getting to the point of being annoyingly slow for most people.
That does NOT translate to a decline in desktops. Nobody wants to get rid of their desktops or stop using them. New devices are exposing new ways to use computers, but old ways are still going to exist.
Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 11, 2012 23:46 UTC (Tue) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] That does NOT translate to a decline in desktops. Wrong accent. It does not yet translates to a decline in desktops. A core 2 duo computer from 2007 is just as useful today as it was when it was new. Only now computers from 2005 are getting to the point of being annoyingly slow for most people. Which means that today's mobile phones and tablets are closer and closer to the speed needed to kill desktop. Indeed first devices are starting to appear (ASUS Transformer, ASUS Padfone, or Spider Laptop), but there are not yet good replacement for desktop: their phone/tablet performance is decent, but they make quite poor replacement for laptop and even poorer for desktop. But the writing's on the wall. That does NOT translate to a decline in desktops. Nobody wants to get rid of their desktops or stop using them. New devices are exposing new ways to use computers, but old ways are still going to exist. For a few more years, yes. Apple I was released in 1976, IBM PC was released in 1981, but sellers on UNIX workstations did great till the middle of 1990th! It's just silly to expect that first clumsy devices will kill the incumbent right away. It'll be few more years till they will be even considered powerful enough to be perceived as serious contenders. I guess watershed moment will happen when it'll be possible to build Android on the Android device. Right now you need quite powerful 64bit x86-based system to do that…
Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 12, 2012 5:05 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]
>I guess watershed moment will happen when it'll be possible to build Android on the Android device. Right now you need quite powerful 64bit x86-based system to do that…
You probably can do this, using Android-x86. Though it definitely would be a clumsy affair.
Meeks: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop Posted Sep 12, 2012 10:39 UTC (Wed) by yodermk (subscriber, #3803) [Link]
It is still crazy talk to think the desktop will disappear - especially for any kind of content creation. Yes it might change form factors; it might be possible to run most desktop apps on a phone connected to a big screen. But that is still a desktop and Linux should still compete for it.
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