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There's a Verdict in Apple v. Samsung (Groklaw)There's a Verdict in Apple v. Samsung (Groklaw)Posted Aug 25, 2012 19:19 UTC (Sat) by mikov (subscriber, #33179)Parent article: There's a Verdict in Apple v. Samsung (Groklaw)
I truly believe that most ordinary Americans are strongly biased in favor of Apple, especially after Steve Jobs'es death, who has been practically turned into a saint :-) Samsung is unlikely to get an impartial and fair jury.
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Going nuclear Posted Aug 25, 2012 20:58 UTC (Sat) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link] Perhaps Google will win its suit against Apple, being also an US company and quite popular too; perhaps all smartphones will eventually be banned and US citizens will have to buy "feature" phones (the variety with buttons; touchscreens are a patent minefield) or smuggled units. Apple's "going nuclear" will end in a nuclear winter for cellphones... Now that would be fun.
Going nuclear Posted Aug 25, 2012 22:04 UTC (Sat) by dashesy (subscriber, #74652) [Link]
I do not see the fun. It would be a sad day for *real* innovation if round corners in shiny iToys ban smart phones other than from Apple or Nokia. I will refuse to get any apple products even as gifts.
Going nuclear Posted Aug 25, 2012 22:07 UTC (Sat) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link] No, the real fun would be if Apple iPhones and Microsoft Phone got banned too, and only "feature" phones with big numeric pads were allowed to survive in the US. ("Going nuclear" means that all parties lose.) That day there would be a big possibility that software patents were really re-evaluated.
Going nuclear Posted Aug 26, 2012 10:02 UTC (Sun) by tcourbon (subscriber, #60669) [Link]
I guess that you do not see the fun since you're a US citizen. As I will watch the fallout of this trial from Europe and I can promise you that I will have some fun when your pairs will slowly realize that the US patenting system is the root of their touch-screen based phone privation (among other things).
Going nuclear Posted Aug 26, 2012 15:05 UTC (Sun) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link] Most of us euro-geeks we have not suffered the evil consequences of software patents yet. Or at least not in full force. If this nuclear winter scenario develops, we will be able to watch the evil consequences of software patents from a distance, without suffering. Then we will have a solid argument against them when they try to reenact them once more via some sneaky EU directive. We have not won the war against them, you know.To be honest it will be mostly sad to watch, as this whole swpat farce has been so far.
Going nuclear Posted Aug 27, 2012 1:34 UTC (Mon) by Per_Bothner (subscriber, #7375) [Link] Most of us euro-geeks we have not suffered the evil consequences of software patents yet.If I understand this correctly, this case was not (primarily?) about software patents but about design patents, a very different kind of beast.
Going nuclear Posted Aug 27, 2012 1:50 UTC (Mon) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link] Oops, I stand corrected. Suddenly it is not funny anymore! Design patents are valid in Europe, and seem to be even a bigger mess than software patents.
Going nuclear Posted Aug 27, 2012 2:06 UTC (Mon) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]
They're easy to work around, though.
Going nuclear Posted Aug 27, 2012 17:15 UTC (Mon) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link] I have found information clearer than Groklaw's massive document collections from Glyn Moody: apparently the patents include several software items, e.g. one covering:touchscreen interactions, including dragging documents, multi-touch, pinch-to-zoom, twist-to-rotate and that nifty little scroll bounce when you’ve reached the end of a list of itemsDisgusting. Interesting article, by the way.
Going nuclear Posted Aug 27, 2012 17:37 UTC (Mon) by dashesy (subscriber, #74652) [Link] Software patents are disgusting and these iTouch, iPinch ones in particular are even more so. It is funny how software patents are worded starting with "method and apparatus" as if it is a machine they describe.
Going nuclear Posted Aug 27, 2012 21:19 UTC (Mon) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]
I am a bit shady on the details and could quite easily be wrong...
I believe that 'pure' software patents technically are 'illegal' in the USA also. Just like in the EU they are not patentable. However the combination of 'software' and 'hardware' creates a patentable invention.
So to get around this limitation every single 'software patent' references many times to the fact that it involves running on actual hardware. Since software is nothing without hardware then this means that pretty much any software algorithm is patentable as soon as you try to actually use it.
The key thing is that you can't try to make sense of it. Patents and what is patentable and is not patentable is completely arbitrary. People try to draw lines about physical inventions or algorithms and such things, but that isn't really relevant. It's purely 'decide by committee' law that is not based on any naturally occurring concept or natural practice by human beings... therefore common sense doesn't apply.
Going nuclear Posted Aug 28, 2012 10:58 UTC (Tue) by HenrikH (guest, #31152) [Link]
No, I think that pure software patents are allowed in the US. Just look at the various compression patents: mp3, gif etc. A Microsoft SQL _user_ in the US got hit and lost a patent case due to a function in MSSQL.
Going nuclear Posted Aug 28, 2012 11:25 UTC (Tue) by hummassa (subscriber, #307) [Link]
Do you have a link? I was under the impression that US patents, like our patent law here in Brasil, did not apply to personal use.
Going nuclear Posted Aug 28, 2012 12:49 UTC (Tue) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link] It was not personal use but corporate use, in fact developers using the product. Here is an example.
Going nuclear Posted Aug 30, 2012 18:25 UTC (Thu) by JanC_ (guest, #34940) [Link]
I think what drag means is that the MP3 algorithm is safe to use as long as you don't use it in a device that compresses or decompresses digital audio samples.
So doing the computations mentally or on paper is okay, doing it in any device is supposedly covered by the patents. Which is totally absurd, of course, but unfortunately it is how patent law is interpreted currently.
Personally, I think a general computation device that can be programmed by its user to do many different things should not be covered by such patents, as the computer is only used there as a help to do the computations faster. (And of course "general" means that you can run on it whatever you want, not a locked down & restricted system... ;) )
Going nuclear Posted Aug 28, 2012 7:50 UTC (Tue) by jezuch (subscriber, #52988) [Link]
From Glyn Moody's article:
> An optimist would say that it has enjoyed some of the best global advertising in recent years, and that $1 billion is a fairly low price to pay for that. After all, there can't be many potential buyers of smartphones who are not now aware that Samsung is a rival of Apple, and in many respect highly similar. Some of them might well take a look at Samsung's offerings, and might be pleasantly surprised at the lower price of many models compared to Apple.
And it looks like he's exactly right:
> Husband: "... Samsung's iPad is the same as Apple's iPad, and I paid how much for the Apple one? Honey, I told you they were a ripoff", after looking up the Samsung tablet on his iPhone.
Looks like Apple has blown off its own foot.
Going nuclear Posted Aug 28, 2012 11:02 UTC (Tue) by man_ls (subscriber, #15091) [Link] That is a good one: at the next WWDC Apple is going to present the iPaid 2 Much.
There's a Verdict in Apple v. Samsung (Groklaw) Posted Aug 26, 2012 0:53 UTC (Sun) by hadrons123 (guest, #72126) [Link]
Still people believe in all the crap apple is feeding them.
People need more common sense. Americans cannot go this path. Its just plain wrong. Apple is the most greediest company in the history of the world!
There's a Verdict in Apple v. Samsung (Groklaw) Posted Aug 26, 2012 1:34 UTC (Sun) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]
> I truly believe that most ordinary Americans are strongly biased in favor of Apple, especially after Steve Jobs'es death, who has been practically turned into a saint :-) Samsung is unlikely to get an impartial and fair jury.
I think that Apple's stock has reached at such a level that there is VERY significant interest by third parties to keep the stock price rising. You can see evidence of this by the fact that whenever Apple does a press release about a new product or whatever then it automatically turns into a fawning news broadcast on CNN or whatever. Unfortunately this has a strong effect on most people's opinions.
(The news media doesn't exist anymore in the USA. It's completely and utterly compromised. Apple is just one example of many. They are now just the advertising and propaganda arms of the corporations that own them.)
If I was a Samsung lawyer I'd look very carefully at who has invested in what.
And what is more look at what Apple has been able to do to HTC. What they have been able to do to Samsung pales in comparison. Apple has managed to _DESTROY_ HTC's ability to sell phones in the USA. I don't know all the details, but HTC had a lot of terrific products that people bought, but now they have a very difficult time working around the legal hurdles that Apple has set up for them.
There's a Verdict in Apple v. Samsung (Groklaw) Posted Aug 29, 2012 16:32 UTC (Wed) by Wol (guest, #4433) [Link]
Then the US is going to suffer.
What's going to happen when companies decide that the US market isn't *worth* going after? If HTC and Samsung decide that they're going to abandon it for Europe and Asia?
If all that's available in the near future in the US is Apple and Nokia, then there's going to be a LOT of grey importing.
Cheers,
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